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Subjectwhat do you guys thing? website project for online class Reply to this message
Posted bySilentAce
Posted on06/03/08 04:50 PM



http://student.ed.umuc.edu/~cm385e14/

I did a lot of css for it, found myself able to condense a lot of tags into one css tag and my god do i love css for that. Still no master at it but i am definately going to be using css a LOT more. I just need to dive into the css table thing next rather then using the table structure. any thoughts and comments?

i know some of the information on there may be incorrect/no the truth... basically some of the info is blowing smoke up there asses because i just wanted to get the pages filled with the information, after couple hours of writing some of the stuff i kind of shortened the answer or gave a explanation how i figured people might understand even though it may not be entirely correct.

Just Another Miller
2E2X1.net
TeamDrunk.net


SubjectRe: what do you guys thing? website project for online class new Reply to this message
Posted bycarrotroot
Posted on06/03/08 06:51 PM



I work as a webmaster for small state college in Florida and just some basic technical observations here:

1) You need to get used to using a DTD in your xhtml.
2) Do not use tables for controlling your layouts, tables are for tabular data. The CSS box method is much more flexible. (Yes, there are times where you must use a table ... but this is definitely not one them).
3) Using an image map for site navigation is absolutely inexcusable. NEVER EVER use an image map for site navigation, there are better and more elegant ways of building a site menu that uses images that does not involve using an image map.

A list apart http://alistapart.com/ shows some good techniques, however I don't like they their css hacks. There are very elegant ways of handling exceptions for IE that does not required javascript, or some ghetto malformed css.


> http://student.ed.umuc.edu/~cm385e14/
>
> I did a lot of css for it, found myself able to condense a lot of tags into one
> css tag and my god do i love css for that. Still no master at it but i am
> definately going to be using css a LOT more. I just need to dive into the css
> table thing next rather then using the table structure. any thoughts and
> comments?
>
> i know some of the information on there may be incorrect/no the truth...
> basically some of the info is blowing smoke up there asses because i just wanted
> to get the pages filled with the information, after couple hours of writing some
> of the stuff i kind of shortened the answer or gave a explanation how i figured
> people might understand even though it may not be entirely correct.
>
> Just Another Miller
> 2E2X1.net
> TeamDrunk.net
>



Subjectsadly enough tables/image maps were required -nt- yes my teacher sucks new Reply to this message
Posted bySilentAce
Posted on06/04/08 00:13 AM



> I work as a webmaster for small state college in Florida and just some basic
> technical observations here:
>
> 1) You need to get used to using a DTD in your xhtml.
> 2) Do not use tables for controlling your layouts, tables are for tabular data.
> The CSS box method is much more flexible. (Yes, there are times where you must
> use a table ... but this is definitely not one them).
> 3) Using an image map for site navigation is absolutely inexcusable. NEVER EVER
> use an image map for site navigation, there are better and more elegant ways of
> building a site menu that uses images that does not involve using an image map.
>
> A list apart http://alistapart.com/ shows some good techniques, however I don't
> like they their css hacks. There are very elegant ways of handling exceptions
> for IE that does not required javascript, or some ghetto malformed css.
>
>
> > http://student.ed.umuc.edu/~cm385e14/
> >
> > I did a lot of css for it, found myself able to condense a lot of tags into
> one
> > css tag and my god do i love css for that. Still no master at it but i am
> > definately going to be using css a LOT more. I just need to dive into the css
> > table thing next rather then using the table structure. any thoughts and
> > comments?
> >
> > i know some of the information on there may be incorrect/no the truth...
> > basically some of the info is blowing smoke up there asses because i just
> wanted
> > to get the pages filled with the information, after couple hours of writing
> some
> > of the stuff i kind of shortened the answer or gave a explanation how i
> figured
> > people might understand even though it may not be entirely correct.
> >
> > Just Another Miller
> > 2E2X1.net
> > TeamDrunk.net
> >
>


Just Another Miller
2E2X1.net
TeamDrunk.net


SubjectI'm a web developer ... your teacher needs to get a grip! -nt- new Reply to this message
Posted byMarv
Posted on06/04/08 03:02 AM



> > I work as a webmaster for small state college in Florida and just some basic
> > technical observations here:
> >
> > 1) You need to get used to using a DTD in your xhtml.
> > 2) Do not use tables for controlling your layouts, tables are for tabular
> data.
> > The CSS box method is much more flexible. (Yes, there are times where you must
> > use a table ... but this is definitely not one them).
> > 3) Using an image map for site navigation is absolutely inexcusable. NEVER
> EVER
> > use an image map for site navigation, there are better and more elegant ways
> of
> > building a site menu that uses images that does not involve using an image
> map.
> >
> > A list apart http://alistapart.com/ shows some good techniques, however I
> don't
> > like they their css hacks. There are very elegant ways of handling exceptions
> > for IE that does not required javascript, or some ghetto malformed css.
> >
> >
> > > http://student.ed.umuc.edu/~cm385e14/
> > >
> > > I did a lot of css for it, found myself able to condense a lot of tags into
> > one
> > > css tag and my god do i love css for that. Still no master at it but i am
> > > definately going to be using css a LOT more. I just need to dive into the
> css
> > > table thing next rather then using the table structure. any thoughts and
> > > comments?
> > >
> > > i know some of the information on there may be incorrect/no the truth...
> > > basically some of the info is blowing smoke up there asses because i just
> > wanted
> > > to get the pages filled with the information, after couple hours of writing
> > some
> > > of the stuff i kind of shortened the answer or gave a explanation how i
> > figured
> > > people might understand even though it may not be entirely correct.
> > >
> > > Just Another Miller
> > > 2E2X1.net
> > > TeamDrunk.net
> > >
> >
>
>
> Just Another Miller
> 2E2X1.net
> TeamDrunk.net
>





Subjectbelieve me i know -mt- new Reply to this message
Posted bySilentAce
Posted on06/04/08 01:11 PM



Wouldn't really call myself a web developer but i have my fair share of experiance, been doing websites since i was around 12. At one point i did basic stuff as a side job but don't do that anymore. I dabble with editing php and such but mostly i only really "know" html. I am about to start my bachelors studies in computer science (at tuiu which there CS major is almost all programming in web style languages and database management to include sql) so i hope to learn a lot

> > > I work as a webmaster for small state college in Florida and just some basic
> > > technical observations here:
> > >
> > > 1) You need to get used to using a DTD in your xhtml.
> > > 2) Do not use tables for controlling your layouts, tables are for tabular
> > data.
> > > The CSS box method is much more flexible. (Yes, there are times where you
> must
> > > use a table ... but this is definitely not one them).
> > > 3) Using an image map for site navigation is absolutely inexcusable. NEVER
> > EVER
> > > use an image map for site navigation, there are better and more elegant ways
> > of
> > > building a site menu that uses images that does not involve using an image
> > map.
> > >
> > > A list apart http://alistapart.com/ shows some good techniques, however I
> > don't
> > > like they their css hacks. There are very elegant ways of handling
> exceptions
> > > for IE that does not required javascript, or some ghetto malformed css.
> > >
> > >
> > > > http://student.ed.umuc.edu/~cm385e14/
> > > >
> > > > I did a lot of css for it, found myself able to condense a lot of tags
> into
> > > one
> > > > css tag and my god do i love css for that. Still no master at it but i am
> > > > definately going to be using css a LOT more. I just need to dive into the
> > css
> > > > table thing next rather then using the table structure. any thoughts and
> > > > comments?
> > > >
> > > > i know some of the information on there may be incorrect/no the truth...
> > > > basically some of the info is blowing smoke up there asses because i just
> > > wanted
> > > > to get the pages filled with the information, after couple hours of
> writing
> > > some
> > > > of the stuff i kind of shortened the answer or gave a explanation how i
> > > figured
> > > > people might understand even though it may not be entirely correct.
> > > >
> > > > Just Another Miller
> > > > 2E2X1.net
> > > > TeamDrunk.net
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Just Another Miller
> > 2E2X1.net
> > TeamDrunk.net
> >
>


Just Another Miller
2E2X1.net
TeamDrunk.net


Subjectif I may give some CS advice new Reply to this message
Posted bynewsdee
Posted on06/04/08 08:50 PM



> Wouldn't really call myself a web developer but i have my fair share of
> experiance, been doing websites since i was around 12. At one point i did basic
> stuff as a side job but don't do that anymore. I dabble with editing php and
> such but mostly i only really "know" html. I am about to start my bachelors
> studies in computer science (at tuiu which there CS major is almost all
> programming in web style languages and database management to include sql) so i
> hope to learn a lot

I'm not familiar with the curriculum there, but I can give you some advice on what to look out for if you want to get the most of your CS. You probably already know this, but here goes.

- HTML and CSS are not "programming languages", but text formatting. Don't let your teachers tell you otherwise. Dynamic HTML or AJAX are just fancy words for these two and Javascript. Non-standardization accross browsers is a big WTF so you'll need to find ways to make things work the same everywhere (for professional web work, at least).

- Try to learn one hard-core language such as C++. Yes I know it's useless for web, you don't need to be a master at it, however, the concepts you will learn will make it very easy to pick up any other language. JAVA and C# are not bad (and good for the resume), but C++ gets you closer to the metal. If it's not part of the core curriculum, you can check if there's an elective project.

- SQL is very useful and good for the resume. But be careful that the way of the world it preaches is very different in how you would do things in an object-oriented language (C++, Java, C#, Actionscript 3 or Javascript 2+). Learn to be comfortable in both and interfacing them will be a breeze.

- PHP is readily available so easy to play with. Try to get some JSP and ASP as well to make your resume look better (every web technology in major companies use at least one of the three).

- Flash/Actionscript/Flex is very fun to hack with, but there's not a big market for it (at least much smaller than C# and definitely JAVA). It's very easy to pick up if you know Java and C++ already.

- Most certifications are toilet paper compared to a real BS degree, but they do impress some people. Not worth spending too much money unless you're sure it'll help you in your field. That being said If you can just read a book and take the exam for a few bucks then go for it.




[download a life]


SubjectRe: if I may give some CS advice new Reply to this message
Posted bySilentAce
Posted on06/05/08 00:19 AM



Thanks for the advice, i don't kid myself. I know html isn't a programming language and i have always wanted to learn C anything but i never knew a good way to start, i started doing tutorials online one day and then got sidetracked and never went back.

You recommend a good program to start with? my issue was there are a million C compilers out there that i don't know what to use.

> > Wouldn't really call myself a web developer but i have my fair share of
> > experiance, been doing websites since i was around 12. At one point i did
> basic
> > stuff as a side job but don't do that anymore. I dabble with editing php and
> > such but mostly i only really "know" html. I am about to start my bachelors
> > studies in computer science (at tuiu which there CS major is almost all
> > programming in web style languages and database management to include sql) so
> i
> > hope to learn a lot
>
> I'm not familiar with the curriculum there, but I can give you some advice on
> what to look out for if you want to get the most of your CS. You probably
> already know this, but here goes.
>
> - HTML and CSS are not "programming languages", but text formatting. Don't let
> your teachers tell you otherwise. Dynamic HTML or AJAX are just fancy words for
> these two and Javascript. Non-standardization accross browsers is a big WTF so
> you'll need to find ways to make things work the same everywhere (for
> professional web work, at least).
>
> - Try to learn one hard-core language such as C++. Yes I know it's useless for
> web, you don't need to be a master at it, however, the concepts you will learn
> will make it very easy to pick up any other language. JAVA and C# are not bad
> (and good for the resume), but C++ gets you closer to the metal. If it's not
> part of the core curriculum, you can check if there's an elective project.
>
> - SQL is very useful and good for the resume. But be careful that the way of the
> world it preaches is very different in how you would do things in an
> object-oriented language (C++, Java, C#, Actionscript 3 or Javascript 2+). Learn
> to be comfortable in both and interfacing them will be a breeze.
>
> - PHP is readily available so easy to play with. Try to get some JSP and ASP as
> well to make your resume look better (every web technology in major companies
> use at least one of the three).
>
> - Flash/Actionscript/Flex is very fun to hack with, but there's not a big market
> for it (at least much smaller than C# and definitely JAVA). It's very easy to
> pick up if you know Java and C++ already.
>
> - Most certifications are toilet paper compared to a real BS degree, but they do
> impress some people. Not worth spending too much money unless you're sure it'll
> help you in your field. That being said If you can just read a book and take the
> exam for a few bucks then go for it.
>
>
>
>
> [download a life]
>


Just Another Miller
2E2X1.net
TeamDrunk.net


SubjectRe: if I may give some CS advice new Reply to this message
Posted byitchyNADZ
Posted on06/05/08 07:47 AM



Maybe Microsoft Visual Studio?


> Thanks for the advice, i don't kid myself. I know html isn't a programming
> language and i have always wanted to learn C anything but i never knew a good
> way to start, i started doing tutorials online one day and then got sidetracked
> and never went back.
>
> You recommend a good program to start with? my issue was there are a million C
> compilers out there that i don't know what to use.
>
> > > Wouldn't really call myself a web developer but i have my fair share of
> > > experiance, been doing websites since i was around 12. At one point i did
> > basic
> > > stuff as a side job but don't do that anymore. I dabble with editing php and
> > > such but mostly i only really "know" html. I am about to start my bachelors
> > > studies in computer science (at tuiu which there CS major is almost all
> > > programming in web style languages and database management to include sql)
> so
> > i
> > > hope to learn a lot
> >
> > I'm not familiar with the curriculum there, but I can give you some advice on
> > what to look out for if you want to get the most of your CS. You probably
> > already know this, but here goes.
> >
> > - HTML and CSS are not "programming languages", but text formatting. Don't let
> > your teachers tell you otherwise. Dynamic HTML or AJAX are just fancy words
> for
> > these two and Javascript. Non-standardization accross browsers is a big WTF so
> > you'll need to find ways to make things work the same everywhere (for
> > professional web work, at least).
> >
> > - Try to learn one hard-core language such as C++. Yes I know it's useless for
> > web, you don't need to be a master at it, however, the concepts you will learn
> > will make it very easy to pick up any other language. JAVA and C# are not bad
> > (and good for the resume), but C++ gets you closer to the metal. If it's not
> > part of the core curriculum, you can check if there's an elective project.
> >
> > - SQL is very useful and good for the resume. But be careful that the way of
> the
> > world it preaches is very different in how you would do things in an
> > object-oriented language (C++, Java, C#, Actionscript 3 or Javascript 2+).
> Learn
> > to be comfortable in both and interfacing them will be a breeze.
> >
> > - PHP is readily available so easy to play with. Try to get some JSP and ASP
> as
> > well to make your resume look better (every web technology in major companies
> > use at least one of the three).
> >
> > - Flash/Actionscript/Flex is very fun to hack with, but there's not a big
> market
> > for it (at least much smaller than C# and definitely JAVA). It's very easy to
> > pick up if you know Java and C++ already.
> >
> > - Most certifications are toilet paper compared to a real BS degree, but they
> do
> > impress some people. Not worth spending too much money unless you're sure
> it'll
> > help you in your field. That being said If you can just read a book and take
> the
> > exam for a few bucks then go for it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [download a life]
> >
>
>
> Just Another Miller
> 2E2X1.net
> TeamDrunk.net
>







SubjectRe: if I may give some CS advice new Reply to this message
Posted byHalcyon
Posted on06/05/08 07:49 AM



> Thanks for the advice, i don't kid myself. I know html isn't a programming
> language and i have always wanted to learn C anything but i never knew a good
> way to start, i started doing tutorials online one day and then got sidetracked
> and never went back.
>
> You recommend a good program to start with? my issue was there are a million C
> compilers out there that i don't know what to use.

Programming is programming, it doesn't matter where you learn the theory so long as you do it. If you want to make sure your app works on every system, use this compiler, which is essentially GCC for Windows. It's a well known compiler used by many popular software applications and games, for computers, consoles, and embedded platforms. You can get libraries to work on DS games with this if you wanted to.

If you want to start programming graphics and games, try libsdl which will provide you with a simple interface to get started. DirectX takes a ton of code just to initialize and it can be all very confusing, this just gets down to what you want to do, and again it will work on all systems. There are some good examples on there and tutorials as well, but your best bet is to start modifying examples and see how they work. SDL is under the LGPL which means you can link to it (i.e. use it in your program) and you don't have to release your program as open source.

If you want to start programming applications, wxWidgets is a simple way to start building interfaces. It is under the LGPL.

Later on if you want to get more complex (but really, put it way off because getting the basics down is hard enough): GTK (LGPL) is a more robust option which is a bit more complex, but also has a lot of third party tools that let you design GUIs graphically. There is also QT which is more robust and has fancier tools to help you develop, but you have to release your program as open source. If you want to close it up you have to purchase a commercial license.

The best thing you can do, is program a simple game like Space Invaders, or Tetris. They're one screen games, not a lot going on, and they let you practice basic things such as key grabbing, collision detection, and simple moving shapes. Plus you don't have to worry a lot about doing art which takes a really long time.

If you want to start programming applications, then start off by making a front end to simple commands you want to accomplish, such as making an interface that lets you rename a whole folder of files based on wildcard matching, or making a sticky notes application, or an alarm clock program that launches an MP3 of the user's choice, etc.

Look for examples you can modify, just start pasting blocks of code together to get what you want done if you have to, and get something to work, then start building on that. Try and program utilities that would make your life simpler on your computer. If you're working on games, try cloning Super Mario Bros next, and then move on to 1942 or Contra.

Don't start buying books, just get something to work first, and look at all the tutorials you can find. They're not all good and the more you see, the more you can find something more suited to you.




SubjectC compilers new Reply to this message
Posted bynewsdee
Posted on06/05/08 08:05 AM



You're right, there are too many choices.

For starters, no need to spend money, just go for a free compiler and IDE. Microsoft's Visual Studio isn't bad but the free version is crippleware. Better to start with something else.

Back in the day I had started with a Borland DOS IDE and compiler, then moved to the DJGPP compiler. Both are oldy moldies so wouldn't recommend them unless you love the DOS environment. At that time I used Allegro as a graphics programming library.

The latest I've used is Dev-Cpp with MinGW, and WinAllegro (I ported an old uni project into Windows with it). You can start with this, as there are plenty of tutorials. For graphics library, you can use Allegro or SDL... the latter is very portable so you have very reusable code if you use it.

Why do I talk about graphics libraries? Well the best way to learn is to spend a lot of time coding and debugging. Might as well do little games or useless graphic widgets to keep it interesting.

You can probably find some old DOS game programming books and follow their examples. In first year of uni I spent too many 3am coding sessions with my trusty copy of Black art of 3D Game Programming (never done 3D but the book covers a lot of graphics programming in general). Then I got a life from the 2nd year :-)




[download a life]


Subjectoh and if you want to go hardcore new Reply to this message
Posted bynewsdee
Posted on06/05/08 08:13 AM



If you want to go hardcore, might as well use VIM or EMacs as your IDE. :-D
Either is very versatile and the more you learn them the more you can get out of them. I've been using GVIM for years because it's quick to install and edits anything (and got addicted to its Grep commands). Young whippersnappers seem to prefer Notepad++ though.

Anyway - just pick one tool of each, use them for a while, and then after a few months look around to see if anything fits you better in your programming habits. If not just stick with it (or you'll never get anything done, too distracting).



[download a life]


Subjectthis post is ace. -nt- and i agree. new Reply to this message
Posted byTi-BOne
Posted on06/05/08 08:44 AM



> > Thanks for the advice, i don't kid myself. I know html isn't a programming
> > language and i have always wanted to learn C anything but i never knew a good
> > way to start, i started doing tutorials online one day and then got
> sidetracked
> > and never went back.
> >
> > You recommend a good program to start with? my issue was there are a million C
> > compilers out there that i don't know what to use.
>
> Programming is programming, it doesn't matter where you learn the theory so long
> as you do it. If you want to make sure your app works on every system, use this
> compiler, which is essentially GCC for Windows. It's a well known compiler used
> by many popular software applications and games, for computers, consoles, and
> embedded platforms. You can get libraries to work on DS games with this if you
> wanted to.
>
> If you want to start programming graphics and games, try libsdl which will
> provide you with a simple interface to get started. DirectX takes a ton of code
> just to initialize and it can be all very confusing, this just gets down to what
> you want to do, and again it will work on all systems. There are some good
> examples on there and tutorials as well, but your best bet is to start modifying
> examples and see how they work. SDL is under the LGPL which means you can link
> to it (i.e. use it in your program) and you don't have to release your program
> as open source.
>
> If you want to start programming applications, wxWidgets is a simple way to
> start building interfaces. It is under the LGPL.
>
> Later on if you want to get more complex (but really, put it way off because
> getting the basics down is hard enough): GTK (LGPL) is a more robust option
> which is a bit more complex, but also has a lot of third party tools that let
> you design GUIs graphically. There is also QT which is more robust and has
> fancier tools to help you develop, but you have to release your program as open
> source. If you want to close it up you have to purchase a commercial license.
>
> The best thing you can do, is program a simple game like Space Invaders, or
> Tetris. They're one screen games, not a lot going on, and they let you practice
> basic things such as key grabbing, collision detection, and simple moving
> shapes. Plus you don't have to worry a lot about doing art which takes a really
> long time.
>
> If you want to start programming applications, then start off by making a front
> end to simple commands you want to accomplish, such as making an interface that
> lets you rename a whole folder of files based on wildcard matching, or making a
> sticky notes application, or an alarm clock program that launches an MP3 of the
> user's choice, etc.
>
> Look for examples you can modify, just start pasting blocks of code together to
> get what you want done if you have to, and get something to work, then start
> building on that. Try and program utilities that would make your life simpler
> on your computer. If you're working on games, try cloning Super Mario Bros
> next, and then move on to 1942 or Contra.
>
> Don't start buying books, just get something to work first, and look at all the
> tutorials you can find. They're not all good and the more you see, the more you
> can find something more suited to you.
>



one can never destroy the power of evil




SubjectWALL HACK -nt- new Reply to this message
Posted byBryzian
Posted on06/06/08 09:37 AM



> > Wouldn't really call myself a web developer but i have my fair share of
> > experiance, been doing websites since i was around 12. At one point i did
> basic
> > stuff as a side job but don't do that anymore. I dabble with editing php and
> > such but mostly i only really "know" html. I am about to start my bachelors
> > studies in computer science (at tuiu which there CS major is almost all
> > programming in web style languages and database management to include sql) so
> i
> > hope to learn a lot
>
> I'm not familiar with the curriculum there, but I can give you some advice on
> what to look out for if you want to get the most of your CS. You probably
> already know this, but here goes.
>
> - HTML and CSS are not "programming languages", but text formatting. Don't let
> your teachers tell you otherwise. Dynamic HTML or AJAX are just fancy words for
> these two and Javascript. Non-standardization accross browsers is a big WTF so
> you'll need to find ways to make things work the same everywhere (for
> professional web work, at least).
>
> - Try to learn one hard-core language such as C++. Yes I know it's useless for
> web, you don't need to be a master at it, however, the concepts you will learn
> will make it very easy to pick up any other language. JAVA and C# are not bad
> (and good for the resume), but C++ gets you closer to the metal. If it's not
> part of the core curriculum, you can check if there's an elective project.
>
> - SQL is very useful and good for the resume. But be careful that the way of the
> world it preaches is very different in how you would do things in an
> object-oriented language (C++, Java, C#, Actionscript 3 or Javascript 2+). Learn
> to be comfortable in both and interfacing them will be a breeze.
>
> - PHP is readily available so easy to play with. Try to get some JSP and ASP as
> well to make your resume look better (every web technology in major companies
> use at least one of the three).
>
> - Flash/Actionscript/Flex is very fun to hack with, but there's not a big market
> for it (at least much smaller than C# and definitely JAVA). It's very easy to
> pick up if you know Java and C++ already.
>
> - Most certifications are toilet paper compared to a real BS degree, but they do
> impress some people. Not worth spending too much money unless you're sure it'll
> help you in your field. That being said If you can just read a book and take the
> exam for a few bucks then go for it.
>
>
>
>
> [download a life]
>





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