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SubjectRaz vs Haze & Guru new Reply to this message
Posted byRoushiMSX
Posted on01/18/05 05:22 PM



Ahh, this is fun.

http://cps2shock.retrogames.com/ and http://haze.mame.net/

Raz throws a hook
18/01/2005


Updated CPS-2 Driver

Below is a updated CPS2 driver that fixes inaccurate details in the driver as it stands in the u3 release. Most of the stuff in this driver was submitted days before the u3 release but rejected...? See the included changes.txt for changes against the u3 driver, there is also a note about incorrect values in the NeoGeo driver.


Haze weaves
Cps2 Rejection .. Cps2 update wasn't included quite simply because i'm sick of hearing about it. After about 7-8 submissions of one person claiming one thing based on their boards, and another person another based on theirs I stopped caring too much and put the driver on freeze until somebody has some actual useful contribution (such as decryption) instead of nitpicking over minor text details which it probably change between boards when there are far larger errors in the driver (the entire decryption method). I have better things to do with my time and am more inclined in this case to stick with internal submissions from MameDev members than external ones.

The NeoGeo frequencies will however be changed, that was an oversight when adding the new bios


Raz goes for an uppercut
18/01/2005


To HAZE, about CPS2 driver.

If you were to take time and read the included changes.txt and follow the advice of where the changes made can be confirmed you will see the changes in the driver (below) are accurate. The fact that you are willing to allow _known_ incorrect information to remain in the driver just shows that you are not the best person to decide what goes in or stays out of MAME because you are letting your own personal opinions affect that accuracy on the MAME project as a whole. How many CPS2 games have you seen? I personally have seen well over 100 and while DEVs may not like that I will not provide tables to help break the encryption of CPS2 at this time (because there is a 2004 game on the system) I am sure all agree that I have never given inaccurate info when it comes to data I submit to the MAMEdev.


Haze interrupts with a bodyblow
Since Raz wants to play it this way... Raz- This is between you and Guru, NOT me, convince Guru, who has a pile of boards, that your changes are correct, not me, I listen to other members of the dev team, and if you're so fussy over 'known incorrect' information being in the driver I may as well rip the whole XOR thing out because its 100% inaccurate. As stated the reason I froze the driver is because I'm sick of hearing about the whole thing, and really quite inclined just to trash it as its the source of so much controversy, creating further arguments involving me does not help the issue.

There is a fairly normal verification process for external submissions, Guru is in charge of verifying any changes made to board information in the source as the majority of this information was supplied by him. Many submissions of various types have failed to get past the verification stage, nobody gets any kind of special treatment in this regard.


Looks like that's the end of round one. Can't wait to see Round 2.




Subjectround 2 predictions new Reply to this message
Posted byIceMan
Posted on01/18/05 05:45 PM



Raz continues to wind up all concerned.

CPS2 removed from MAME.

Raz releases own MAME derivative/sources with CPS2.

Can't think what'll come next. Though ideally none of the above, instead Raz & Guru make peace, share info, proper decryption is added and the good fellows of MAMEdev don't add the 2004 game on CPS2 (much like not adding other new games). Of course (a) this'll never happen and (b) if it ever did (or if CPS2 was decrypted properly) then some nasty MAME derivative somewhere would add the 2004 game regardless.

Ah emu-politics, lighting up messageboards everywhere :-P

Ice




SubjectSUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY!!! new Reply to this message
Posted byChachiSqrPants
Posted on01/18/05 06:21 PM



the battle of who gives a shit

CSP


SubjectRe: C'est magnifique! new Reply to this message
Posted byJan_Klaassen
Posted on01/18/05 06:32 PM



http://www.emu-france.com/?page=news

Vraiment, magnifique.




Subjectcould be funnier new Reply to this message
Posted byChachiSqrPants
Posted on01/18/05 06:35 PM



if i knew french

CSP


SubjectMuch Ado About Nothing new Reply to this message
Posted bymangamuscle
Posted on01/18/05 06:35 PM



Raz is nitpicking about nothing relevant, I hoped his so called "update" was sharing something new or relevant, but not at all "oh, this roms name are called this way","this game name is that way". It is Utter crap, nothing more.

Seems Raz is trying a power move, trying to prove he has influence in mame, that if his "changes" are not included is because Haze is evil (when the truth is that Raz's so called "updated driver" patch isn't adding anything worthy of addition)





SubjectAll this over lame Crapcom games? *nt* new Reply to this message
Posted byBart T.
Posted on01/18/05 07:38 PM



> Ahh, this is fun.
>
> http://cps2shock.retrogames.com/ and http://haze.mame.net/
>
> Raz throws a hook
> 18/01/2005
>
>
> Updated CPS-2 Driver
>
> Below is a updated CPS2 driver that fixes inaccurate details in the driver
> as it stands in the u3 release. Most of the stuff in this driver was submitted
> days before the u3 release but rejected...? See the included changes.txt for
> changes against the u3 driver, there is also a note about incorrect values in
> the NeoGeo driver.
>
> Haze weaves
> Cps2 Rejection .. Cps2 update wasn't included quite simply because i'm sick of
> hearing about it. After about 7-8 submissions of one person claiming one thing
> based on their boards, and another person another based on theirs I stopped
> caring too much and put the driver on freeze until somebody has some actual
> useful contribution (such as decryption) instead of nitpicking over minor text
> details which it probably change between boards when there are far larger errors
> in the driver (the entire decryption method). I have better things to do with my
> time and am more inclined in this case to stick with internal submissions from
> MameDev members than external ones.
>
> The NeoGeo frequencies will however be changed, that was an oversight when
> adding the new bios
>
> Raz goes for an uppercut
> 18/01/2005
>
>
> To HAZE, about CPS2 driver.
>
> If you were to take time and read the included changes.txt and follow the
> advice of where the changes made can be confirmed you will see the changes in
> the driver (below) are accurate. The fact that you are willing to allow _known_
> incorrect information to remain in the driver just shows that you are not the
> best person to decide what goes in or stays out of MAME because you are letting
> your own personal opinions affect that accuracy on the MAME project as a whole.
> How many CPS2 games have you seen? I personally have seen well over 100 and
> while DEVs may not like that I will not provide tables to help break the
> encryption of CPS2 at this time (because there is a 2004 game on the system) I
> am sure all agree that I have never given inaccurate info when it comes to data
> I submit to the MAMEdev.
>
> Haze interrupts with a bodyblow
> Since Raz wants to play it this way... Raz- This is between you and Guru, NOT
> me, convince Guru, who has a pile of boards, that your changes are correct, not
> me, I listen to other members of the dev team, and if you're so fussy over
> 'known incorrect' information being in the driver I may as well rip the whole
> XOR thing out because its 100% inaccurate. As stated the reason I froze the
> driver is because I'm sick of hearing about the whole thing, and really quite
> inclined just to trash it as its the source of so much controversy, creating
> further arguments involving me does not help the issue.
>
> There is a fairly normal verification process for external submissions, Guru is
> in charge of verifying any changes made to board information in the source as
> the majority of this information was supplied by him. Many submissions of
> various types have failed to get past the verification stage, nobody gets any
> kind of special treatment in this regard.
>
> Looks like that's the end of round one. Can't wait to see Round 2.
>
>



SubjectNeo Geo too I believe (nt) new Reply to this message
Posted byIceMan
Posted on01/18/05 07:39 PM



> > Ahh, this is fun.
> >
> > http://cps2shock.retrogames.com/ and http://haze.mame.net/
> >
> > Raz throws a hook
> > 18/01/2005
> >
> >
> > Updated CPS-2 Driver
> >
> > Below is a updated CPS2 driver that fixes inaccurate details in the driver
> > as it stands in the u3 release. Most of the stuff in this driver was submitted
> > days before the u3 release but rejected...? See the included changes.txt for
> > changes against the u3 driver, there is also a note about incorrect values in
> > the NeoGeo driver.
> >
> > Haze weaves
> > Cps2 Rejection .. Cps2 update wasn't included quite simply because i'm sick of
> > hearing about it. After about 7-8 submissions of one person claiming one thing
> > based on their boards, and another person another based on theirs I stopped
> > caring too much and put the driver on freeze until somebody has some actual
> > useful contribution (such as decryption) instead of nitpicking over minor text
> > details which it probably change between boards when there are far larger
> errors
> > in the driver (the entire decryption method). I have better things to do with
> my
> > time and am more inclined in this case to stick with internal submissions from
> > MameDev members than external ones.
> >
> > The NeoGeo frequencies will however be changed, that was an oversight when
> > adding the new bios
> >
> > Raz goes for an uppercut
> > 18/01/2005
> >
> >
> > To HAZE, about CPS2 driver.
> >
> > If you were to take time and read the included changes.txt and follow the
> > advice of where the changes made can be confirmed you will see the changes in
> > the driver (below) are accurate. The fact that you are willing to allow
> _known_
> > incorrect information to remain in the driver just shows that you are not the
> > best person to decide what goes in or stays out of MAME because you are
> letting
> > your own personal opinions affect that accuracy on the MAME project as a
> whole.
> > How many CPS2 games have you seen? I personally have seen well over 100 and
> > while DEVs may not like that I will not provide tables to help break the
> > encryption of CPS2 at this time (because there is a 2004 game on the system) I
> > am sure all agree that I have never given inaccurate info when it comes to
> data
> > I submit to the MAMEdev.
> >
> > Haze interrupts with a bodyblow
> > Since Raz wants to play it this way... Raz- This is between you and Guru, NOT
> > me, convince Guru, who has a pile of boards, that your changes are correct,
> not
> > me, I listen to other members of the dev team, and if you're so fussy over
> > 'known incorrect' information being in the driver I may as well rip the whole
> > XOR thing out because its 100% inaccurate. As stated the reason I froze the
> > driver is because I'm sick of hearing about the whole thing, and really quite
> > inclined just to trash it as its the source of so much controversy, creating
> > further arguments involving me does not help the issue.
> >
> > There is a fairly normal verification process for external submissions, Guru
> is
> > in charge of verifying any changes made to board information in the source as
> > the majority of this information was supplied by him. Many submissions of
> > various types have failed to get past the verification stage, nobody gets any
> > kind of special treatment in this regard.
> >
> > Looks like that's the end of round one. Can't wait to see Round 2.
> >
> >
>





SubjectAhh, now that makes it worth it -nt- pl0p new Reply to this message
Posted byBuveed
Posted on01/18/05 08:29 PM



> > > Ahh, this is fun.
> > >
> > > http://cps2shock.retrogames.com/ and http://haze.mame.net/
> > >
> > > Raz throws a hook
> > > 18/01/2005
> > >
> > >
> > > Updated CPS-2 Driver
> > >
> > > Below is a updated CPS2 driver that fixes inaccurate details in the
> driver
> > > as it stands in the u3 release. Most of the stuff in this driver was
> submitted
> > > days before the u3 release but rejected...? See the included changes.txt for
> > > changes against the u3 driver, there is also a note about incorrect values
> in
> > > the NeoGeo driver.
> > >
> > > Haze weaves
> > > Cps2 Rejection .. Cps2 update wasn't included quite simply because i'm sick
> of
> > > hearing about it. After about 7-8 submissions of one person claiming one
> thing
> > > based on their boards, and another person another based on theirs I stopped
> > > caring too much and put the driver on freeze until somebody has some actual
> > > useful contribution (such as decryption) instead of nitpicking over minor
> text
> > > details which it probably change between boards when there are far larger
> > errors
> > > in the driver (the entire decryption method). I have better things to do
> with
> > my
> > > time and am more inclined in this case to stick with internal submissions
> from
> > > MameDev members than external ones.
> > >
> > > The NeoGeo frequencies will however be changed, that was an oversight when
> > > adding the new bios
> > >
> > > Raz goes for an uppercut
> > > 18/01/2005
> > >
> > >
> > > To HAZE, about CPS2 driver.
> > >
> > > If you were to take time and read the included changes.txt and follow
> the
> > > advice of where the changes made can be confirmed you will see the changes
> in
> > > the driver (below) are accurate. The fact that you are willing to allow
> > _known_
> > > incorrect information to remain in the driver just shows that you are not
> the
> > > best person to decide what goes in or stays out of MAME because you are
> > letting
> > > your own personal opinions affect that accuracy on the MAME project as a
> > whole.
> > > How many CPS2 games have you seen? I personally have seen well over 100 and
> > > while DEVs may not like that I will not provide tables to help break the
> > > encryption of CPS2 at this time (because there is a 2004 game on the system)
> I
> > > am sure all agree that I have never given inaccurate info when it comes to
> > data
> > > I submit to the MAMEdev.
> > >
> > > Haze interrupts with a bodyblow
> > > Since Raz wants to play it this way... Raz- This is between you and Guru,
> NOT
> > > me, convince Guru, who has a pile of boards, that your changes are correct,
> > not
> > > me, I listen to other members of the dev team, and if you're so fussy over
> > > 'known incorrect' information being in the driver I may as well rip the
> whole
> > > XOR thing out because its 100% inaccurate. As stated the reason I froze the
> > > driver is because I'm sick of hearing about the whole thing, and really
> quite
> > > inclined just to trash it as its the source of so much controversy, creating
> > > further arguments involving me does not help the issue.
> > >
> > > There is a fairly normal verification process for external submissions, Guru
> > is
> > > in charge of verifying any changes made to board information in the source
> as
> > > the majority of this information was supplied by him. Many submissions of
> > > various types have failed to get past the verification stage, nobody gets
> any
> > > kind of special treatment in this regard.
> > >
> > > Looks like that's the end of round one. Can't wait to see Round 2.
> > >
> > >
> >
>





Subjectit's a great analogy, explanation within new Reply to this message
Posted bynewsdee
Posted on01/18/05 08:43 PM



That excerpt is from a French comic, Asterix, for a volume that takes place in Corsica. Corsica is the island at the south of France, which inhabitants are very proud people, to the extent of, for some, being agressive separatists. There's even terrorist groups (look at Northern Ireland, imagine how it would be if the whole island was under British control)!

Because of this pride, they are also known to have bitter family feuds between them (It's all very mediterranean... the Sicilian Vendetta is not far in concept).

So the comic has an ongoing joke that they are fighting for something not really worth fighting about (I think it is, in that page, about somebody not borrowing a donkey to somebody else three generations ago, and then things escalated from here).

This fight, of course, weakens them against the common enemy (the Romans), but they manage to win when they realize that they are stronger fighting together.

Hey, its a comic, of course its cheesy.



[download a life]


SubjectRe: round 2 predictions new Reply to this message
Posted bylux_92886
Posted on01/18/05 10:32 PM



> Raz continues to wind up all concerned.
>
> CPS2 removed from MAME.
>
> Raz releases own MAME derivative/sources with CPS2.
>
> Can't think what'll come next. Though ideally none of the above, instead Raz &
> Guru make peace, share info, proper decryption is added and the good fellows of
> MAMEdev don't add the 2004 game on CPS2 (much like not adding other new games).
> Of course (a) this'll never happen and (b) if it ever did (or if CPS2 was
> decrypted properly) then some nasty MAME derivative somewhere would add the 2004
> game regardless.
>
> Ah emu-politics, lighting up messageboards everywhere :-P
>
> Ice
>

CPS2 won't be removed, Raz will continue to be rejected, Aaron Giles releases new totally 100% accurate CPS2 and Neo Geo drivers.


Subjectnope... just some text/filenames in the cps2 driver ......... [nt] new Reply to this message
Posted by[Haze]
Posted on01/19/05 02:19 AM



> > > Ahh, this is fun.
> > >
> > > http://cps2shock.retrogames.com/ and http://haze.mame.net/
> > >
> > > Raz throws a hook
> > > 18/01/2005
> > >
> > >
> > > Updated CPS-2 Driver
> > >
> > > Below is a updated CPS2 driver that fixes inaccurate details in the
> driver
> > > as it stands in the u3 release. Most of the stuff in this driver was
> submitted
> > > days before the u3 release but rejected...? See the included changes.txt for
> > > changes against the u3 driver, there is also a note about incorrect values
> in
> > > the NeoGeo driver.
> > >
> > > Haze weaves
> > > Cps2 Rejection .. Cps2 update wasn't included quite simply because i'm sick
> of
> > > hearing about it. After about 7-8 submissions of one person claiming one
> thing
> > > based on their boards, and another person another based on theirs I stopped
> > > caring too much and put the driver on freeze until somebody has some actual
> > > useful contribution (such as decryption) instead of nitpicking over minor
> text
> > > details which it probably change between boards when there are far larger
> > errors
> > > in the driver (the entire decryption method). I have better things to do
> with
> > my
> > > time and am more inclined in this case to stick with internal submissions
> from
> > > MameDev members than external ones.
> > >
> > > The NeoGeo frequencies will however be changed, that was an oversight when
> > > adding the new bios
> > >
> > > Raz goes for an uppercut
> > > 18/01/2005
> > >
> > >
> > > To HAZE, about CPS2 driver.
> > >
> > > If you were to take time and read the included changes.txt and follow
> the
> > > advice of where the changes made can be confirmed you will see the changes
> in
> > > the driver (below) are accurate. The fact that you are willing to allow
> > _known_
> > > incorrect information to remain in the driver just shows that you are not
> the
> > > best person to decide what goes in or stays out of MAME because you are
> > letting
> > > your own personal opinions affect that accuracy on the MAME project as a
> > whole.
> > > How many CPS2 games have you seen? I personally have seen well over 100 and
> > > while DEVs may not like that I will not provide tables to help break the
> > > encryption of CPS2 at this time (because there is a 2004 game on the system)
> I
> > > am sure all agree that I have never given inaccurate info when it comes to
> > data
> > > I submit to the MAMEdev.
> > >
> > > Haze interrupts with a bodyblow
> > > Since Raz wants to play it this way... Raz- This is between you and Guru,
> NOT
> > > me, convince Guru, who has a pile of boards, that your changes are correct,
> > not
> > > me, I listen to other members of the dev team, and if you're so fussy over
> > > 'known incorrect' information being in the driver I may as well rip the
> whole
> > > XOR thing out because its 100% inaccurate. As stated the reason I froze the
> > > driver is because I'm sick of hearing about the whole thing, and really
> quite
> > > inclined just to trash it as its the source of so much controversy, creating
> > > further arguments involving me does not help the issue.
> > >
> > > There is a fairly normal verification process for external submissions, Guru
> > is
> > > in charge of verifying any changes made to board information in the source
> as
> > > the majority of this information was supplied by him. Many submissions of
> > > various types have failed to get past the verification stage, nobody gets
> any
> > > kind of special treatment in this regard.
> > >
> > > Looks like that's the end of round one. Can't wait to see Round 2.
> > >
> > >
> >
>


Tell Me Why You're Here, I Came To Disappear
http://haze.mame.net/


SubjectRe: Much Ado About Nothing Reply to this message
Posted byfinaldave
Posted on01/19/05 06:05 AM



> Raz is nitpicking about nothing relevant, I hoped his so called "update" was
> sharing something new or relevant, but not at all "oh, this roms name are called
> this way","this game name is that way". It is Utter crap, nothing more.
>
> Seems Raz is trying a power move, trying to prove he has influence in mame, that
> if his "changes" are not included is because Haze is evil (when the truth is
> that Raz's so called "updated driver" patch isn't adding anything worthy of
> addition)

Pissing match, as I've said. Nothing to do with emulation anymore.



Newsdee's Love, Glory, and Discussion Boards



SubjectRaz brings out the evidence new Reply to this message
Posted byIceMan
Posted on01/19/05 07:55 AM



Large post by Raz

Ice




SubjectRe: Raz brings out the evidence new Reply to this message
Posted byfinaldave
Posted on01/19/05 08:04 AM



> Large post by Raz
>
> Ice

So the general gist here is Raz has got a load of teeny weeny changes for the CPS2 driver in MAME.
Wow.
Hey how bout the encryption algorithm... that would be a fairly decent submission to MAME!

I have to say, I'm with Haze on this one again. Raz keeps acting more and more like a child each day. (Yeah I know, it's ironic me saying this, but it doesn't mean it's not true.)


Newsdee's Love, Glory, and Discussion Boards



SubjectHmm so what are the chances... new Reply to this message
Posted bymikeyt
Posted on01/19/05 11:33 AM



...of Guru giving Raz's contribution the seal of approval?


SubjectWhat are the chances of anybody giving a shit? new Reply to this message
Posted byDeath Knight
Posted on01/19/05 11:38 AM



If Raz is gonna be anal, at least be anal about something somebody gives a flying fuck about. For god's sake, bitching because Street Fighter 2 is named Street Fighter II or vice-versa is just about the dumbest thing i've heard him say, and he's said some retarded things back in the day.


Gives us a kiss precious.


SubjectRe: nope... just some text/filenames in the cps2 driver ......... [nt] new Reply to this message
Posted bysmf
Posted on01/19/05 12:06 PM



Quite a few changes ( I did try posting a diff in the message but the board bitched ). Although accuracy is important, he's kinda talked himself into a corner.

IMHO someone ought to get hold of and release all the phoenix hacks. They are pretty useless for bootlegging because of the high cost of replacing all the other roms ( besides a bootlegger wouldn't think twice about ordering one from Razoola anyway ).

smf





SubjectRe: round 2 predictions new Reply to this message
Posted bysmf
Posted on01/19/05 12:11 PM



> (or if CPS2 was
> decrypted properly) then some nasty MAME derivative somewhere would add the 2004
> game regardless.

Unlikely, unless someone releases the tools and docs for dumping the keys. Which could happen, but then someone would have to buy the board & make the hardware ( or worse type in fifty screen shots of data ) just to get a game they can already play. No point unless you have a captive market ( which is basically what Razoola has now ).

smf





SubjectRe: Raz vs Haze & Guru new Reply to this message
Posted bysmf
Posted on01/19/05 12:15 PM



"You have done it since 2001 from various lies about me and CPS2shock to getting yourself set as a MOD on CPS2 forums just to close them."

I seriously doubt that is true. The cps2 forums were pretty much dead for ages. The only traffic was speculation about cps3. That didn't last long either.

smf





SubjectIncredigay (nt) new Reply to this message
Posted bySmitdogg
Posted on01/19/05 12:38 PM



> Large post by Raz
>
> Ice
>


Smitdogg

"Your search shall find fatigue instead of roms." -Team Japump



Subjectanother update on haze's website new Reply to this message
Posted byskydoune
Posted on01/19/05 12:39 PM



god I love this one

quote
You're not paying us, yet you're giving us orders like you were while making a nice little profit out of selling Capcom's material yourself?
/quote


Testing underwear in outer space


SubjectRe: Raz vs Haze & Guru new Reply to this message
Posted by[Haze]
Posted on01/19/05 01:23 PM



> "You have done it since 2001 from various lies about me and CPS2shock to getting
> yourself set as a MOD on CPS2 forums just to close them."
>
> I seriously doubt that is true. The cps2 forums were pretty much dead for ages.
> The only traffic was speculation about cps3. That didn't last long either.
>

indeed, it was down to one post every 3 weeks or so, and that was usually some kind of troll from the ca board saying how dead the board was. it served no purpose to even check anymore.

Mame hasn't cared about 8.3 in the rom filenames for a long time either ..

> smf
>


Tell Me Why You're Here, I Came To Disappear
http://haze.mame.net/


SubjectRe: nope... just some text/filenames in the cps2 driver ......... [nt] new Reply to this message
Posted by[Haze]
Posted on01/19/05 01:28 PM



> Quite a few changes ( I did try posting a diff in the message but the board
> bitched ). Although accuracy is important, he's kinda talked himself into a
> corner.

the main problem was i got about 4 updates at first, with various minor changes, guru checked one of those, but no sooner had that been checked, merged and sent to me to include than there was another etc. In the end Guru verified one and merged the changes which agreed with his boards, with a few suggestions to me (I didn't personally believe the promoting cps2shock as a source for a cps2 fix was a good idea as we don't really want to promote commercial services in the source, nor did I really feel Gurus comment on the quality of the games was appropriate) that was to be included, after which raz sent at least one other update which I said I'd rather just ignore because by that point I was quite sick of things being changed and changed back already. If raz wants it sorted out he should sort it out with Guru directly as Guru is the one who verified and modified the submissions, the readmes are Gurus afterall. sending me / mamedev the update all the time is quite pointless and rather annoying in this situation.

When all thats changing are text details its incredibly annoying to have to get them verified again, especially when the changes in question weren't included the first time after verification.

I have near infinite tolerance for people who submit actual functional changes at a rapid rate, infact i like to see it, but when its constant tiny changes in the text its not so importnat, usually if I have such changes to make I wait until I actually have a significant other contribution and make them at that point.

>
> IMHO someone ought to get hold of and release all the phoenix hacks. They are
> pretty useless for bootlegging because of the high cost of replacing all the
> other roms ( besides a bootlegger wouldn't think twice about ordering one from
> Razoola anyway ).
>
> smf
>


Tell Me Why You're Here, I Came To Disappear
http://haze.mame.net/


SubjectMeaningless Turd Joust *nt* new Reply to this message
Posted byBBQmyNUTZ
Posted on01/19/05 02:32 PM



> Ahh, this is fun.
>
> http://cps2shock.retrogames.com/ and http://haze.mame.net/
>
> Raz throws a hook
> 18/01/2005
>
>
> Updated CPS-2 Driver
>
> Below is a updated CPS2 driver that fixes inaccurate details in the driver
> as it stands in the u3 release. Most of the stuff in this driver was submitted
> days before the u3 release but rejected...? See the included changes.txt for
> changes against the u3 driver, there is also a note about incorrect values in
> the NeoGeo driver.
>
> Haze weaves
> Cps2 Rejection .. Cps2 update wasn't included quite simply because i'm sick of
> hearing about it. After about 7-8 submissions of one person claiming one thing
> based on their boards, and another person another based on theirs I stopped
> caring too much and put the driver on freeze until somebody has some actual
> useful contribution (such as decryption) instead of nitpicking over minor text
> details which it probably change between boards when there are far larger errors
> in the driver (the entire decryption method). I have better things to do with my
> time and am more inclined in this case to stick with internal submissions from
> MameDev members than external ones.
>
> The NeoGeo frequencies will however be changed, that was an oversight when
> adding the new bios
>
> Raz goes for an uppercut
> 18/01/2005
>
>
> To HAZE, about CPS2 driver.
>
> If you were to take time and read the included changes.txt and follow the
> advice of where the changes made can be confirmed you will see the changes in
> the driver (below) are accurate. The fact that you are willing to allow _known_
> incorrect information to remain in the driver just shows that you are not the
> best person to decide what goes in or stays out of MAME because you are letting
> your own personal opinions affect that accuracy on the MAME project as a whole.
> How many CPS2 games have you seen? I personally have seen well over 100 and
> while DEVs may not like that I will not provide tables to help break the
> encryption of CPS2 at this time (because there is a 2004 game on the system) I
> am sure all agree that I have never given inaccurate info when it comes to data
> I submit to the MAMEdev.
>
> Haze interrupts with a bodyblow
> Since Raz wants to play it this way... Raz- This is between you and Guru, NOT
> me, convince Guru, who has a pile of boards, that your changes are correct, not
> me, I listen to other members of the dev team, and if you're so fussy over
> 'known incorrect' information being in the driver I may as well rip the whole
> XOR thing out because its 100% inaccurate. As stated the reason I froze the
> driver is because I'm sick of hearing about the whole thing, and really quite
> inclined just to trash it as its the source of so much controversy, creating
> further arguments involving me does not help the issue.
>
> There is a fairly normal verification process for external submissions, Guru is
> in charge of verifying any changes made to board information in the source as
> the majority of this information was supplied by him. Many submissions of
> various types have failed to get past the verification stage, nobody gets any
> kind of special treatment in this regard.
>
> Looks like that's the end of round one. Can't wait to see Round 2.
>
>



SubjectTook it down....but saw fit to leave the new Reply to this message
Posted byrocko72071ll
Posted on01/19/05 06:57 PM



> Large post by Raz
>
> Ice
>



SubjectTook it down....but saw fit to leave the "guru comes clean" post.NT new Reply to this message
Posted byrocko72071ll
Posted on01/19/05 06:57 PM



> Large post by Raz
>
> Ice
>



SubjectYou're Ever So Slightly Mistaken new Reply to this message
Posted byRoushiMSX
Posted on01/19/05 07:17 PM



The troll posts from CA were quite rare in that board.

now the suggestions board, on the other hand... that place is like CA to the extreme.




SubjectRe: What are the chances of anybody giving a shit? new Reply to this message
Posted byProphet (RG)
Posted on01/19/05 07:31 PM



> If Raz is gonna be anal, at least be anal about something somebody gives a
> flying fuck about. For god's sake, bitching because Street Fighter 2 is named
> Street Fighter II or vice-versa is just about the dumbest thing i've heard him
> say, and he's said some retarded things back in the day.
>

Actually Raz is probably right about the CPS2 driver details, and generally MAME does care about even minor details. And Haze is also right about driver submissions sometimes taking a long while to get added into official source updates. So they're both right in some way.

But it seems the real problem here is simply people not getting along on a personal level.

What is interesting to me, is that I had no idea there was a 2004 CPS2 game.

-Prophet-
www.retrogames.com


Subject8.3 new Reply to this message
Posted byTerry Bogard
Posted on01/19/05 10:29 PM



> Mame hasn't cared about 8.3 in the rom filenames for a long time either ..

Really? Pity... did it cost so much to keep some backward portability?

OKKAY!


SubjectRe: What are the chances of anybody giving a shit? new Reply to this message
Posted bySixtoe
Posted on01/20/05 03:43 AM



> What is interesting to me, is that I had no idea there was a 2004 CPS2 game.

Its a special edition limited run cps2 board (somewhere between 200 and 500 boards) which were made for the whatever anniversary of sf2.

System16 - The Arcade Museum


SubjectRe: What are the chances of anybody giving a shit? new Reply to this message
Posted byfinaldave
Posted on01/20/05 05:36 AM



> > If Raz is gonna be anal, at least be anal about something somebody gives a
> > flying fuck about. For god's sake, bitching because Street Fighter 2 is named
> > Street Fighter II or vice-versa is just about the dumbest thing i've heard him
> > say, and he's said some retarded things back in the day.
> >
>
> Actually Raz is probably right about the CPS2 driver details, and generally MAME
> does care about even minor details.

But the point is, it's ridiculous to get anal in the MAME project about whether Street Fighter 2 is abbreviated to 'sf2' or 'sfii' if your emulation method is getting an encrypted version of the Rom, hacking up some unencrypted version and XORring the two files together.

Yes, do that for a couple of months or so while you get your head round it.
Yes, do that in FB, FBA, Nebula, Callus hack, whatever.
But in MAME the whole ethos is that they emulate everything they possibly can.

You don't pointlessly HLE part of the system because someone called Raz wants to piss higher than everyone else.


> And Haze is also right about driver
> submissions sometimes taking a long while to get added into official source
> updates. So they're both right in some way.
>
> But it seems the real problem here is simply people not getting along on a
> personal level.
>
> What is interesting to me, is that I had no idea there was a 2004 CPS2 game.

To be honest I reckon that's an excuse to backtrack anyway, but I'm cynical at the moment.



Newsdee's Love, Glory, and Discussion Boards



SubjectHow many new Reply to this message
Posted byLilwolf
Posted on01/20/05 08:42 AM



How many cps2 games wouldn't be accepted into the standard mame distribution?

I think Raz is worried about having his work promote bootlegs.. And he should. Look at what the NeoGeo driver did. Really!

Once the encryption is in mame... you cant go back.

but the question is this... Is this the ONLY new CPS2 game out there? If so then I believe he should release all information. If there are still a few others... He shouldn't and the mame team should support him on this.

Imagine how much better the scene would be if the neogeo encryption was never added to code, but had XOr's...

As for not releasing dumps.

IF THE PERSON WHO DONATED THE BOARD ASKED FOR HIM NOT TO RELEASE A DUMP HE SHOULD SUPPORT THEIR WISHES! Otherwise nobody would ever send anything to him. Its like sending code to beta tester and having them leak your app a week before you planned on it.

I don't know why people are so pissed at each other around here about it.

btw... Haze is right. He has better pressing use of his time then to worry about a driver that has hacks... Think about the 2006 sega release... For a LONG time they didn't fix any bugs in it because it needed a rewrite. And those drivers where for (1) better games (2) didn't work at all let alone slight timing problems.

Anyway, everyone should respect others works around here. Raz DOES know about CPS2 emulation probably better then anyone and he DID bring them to everyone. Haze DOES know how to setup a mame build with solid changes added. Haze DOES have to schedule his time / effort. Guru DOES do a CRAPLOAD of stuff for the community and is the EXPERT in all dumps....

Sometimes I think they should just make a TV show 9021MAME with Luke Perry as Haze, and (ok I don't know anyone else from the show... )




Subjectis there any money to be made out of cps2 bootlegs? new Reply to this message
Posted byIbbo
Posted on01/20/05 09:28 AM



Because if there isn't then I doubt anyone would bother to make one. Surely if some bent arcade operator wanted a bunch of crappy cps2 fighters then he'd just get a mame cab or two.

Oh and on another point, raz doesn't have any extra information to release bar the phoenix boards and the roms from hoonis' hacked copy of street fighter zero 2 for the exact same reason... he wouldn't make any money out of defeating the encryption so he never bothered working on it after he started work on the xor files. The phoenix roms and the neo-geo unibios are his new cash cows, but I doubt he's making enough to pay the "bills". Has he finally got himself a job or is he making Sari work two now? I thought everyone realised this a long time ago, why are people still arguing about this? Raz is a crook, fin.




SubjectIt Has Began!!! new Reply to this message
Posted byH20 POLO
Posted on01/20/05 09:58 AM



YEESSSS!!
Bring it All!
The all new & improved Flame Wars 2005!

Bring all the flame, the cursing, the saliva, the retarded posts, everything!

It’s so funny all these Devs & Dumpers bringing us so much joy & laughter!








SubjectThe filenames inside the zip -nt- new Reply to this message
Posted bySune_S
Posted on01/20/05 11:09 AM



> > Mame hasn't cared about 8.3 in the rom filenames for a long time either ..
>
> Really? Pity... did it cost so much to keep some backward portability?

nt

-Sune





SubjectRe: How many new Reply to this message
Posted by[Haze]
Posted on01/20/05 11:26 AM




> Imagine how much better the scene would be if the neogeo encryption was never
> added to code, but had XOr's...
>

no better at all, the rom sets would just be ~64meg bigger.

bootleggers already know how to bootleg the neogeo games, the decryption of them came about because bootlegs were available. all that would have happened is more bootlegs would have been dumped instead, even worse.

Tell Me Why You're Here, I Came To Disappear
http://haze.mame.net/


SubjectRe: How many new Reply to this message
Posted byfinaldave
Posted on01/20/05 11:31 AM



> How many cps2 games wouldn't be accepted into the standard mame distribution?
>
> I think Raz is worried about having his work promote bootlegs.. And he should.
> Look at what the NeoGeo driver did. Really!
>
> Once the encryption is in mame... you cant go back.
>
> but the question is this... Is this the ONLY new CPS2 game out there? If so
> then I believe he should release all information. If there are still a few
> others... He shouldn't and the mame team should support him on this.
>
> Imagine how much better the scene would be if the neogeo encryption was never
> added to code, but had XOr's...

Better? WHA--AT?

All that would happen is Raz would have a shitload of NeoGeo boards to Horde and inflate his ego with, and the romsets would be bigger


Newsdee's Love, Glory, and Discussion Boards



SubjectRe: How many new Reply to this message
Posted byLilwolf
Posted on01/20/05 01:24 PM



I was more talking about making it non-trivial to add 2001+ games to a different version of mame.

Other then it might have kept kaillera on talking terms with the mame team. It would have added control to the mame team to make sure their software isn't used for purposes they dont intend.






SubjectRe: How many new Reply to this message
Posted by[Haze]
Posted on01/20/05 01:34 PM



> I was more talking about making it non-trivial to add 2001+ games to a different
> version of mame.
>

the bootlegs are unprotected anyway, it would have made no difference at all. at no point was the protection on the later games documented, people simply used bootlegs.

there is one cps2 game which wouldn't be included in Mame at this point, and I strongly suspect that even if the encryption was figured out emulating it would be impossible without extracting a large amount of data from the original boards like the fd1094, and if somebody can do that they could bootleg/emulate it anyway.

> Other then it might have kept kaillera on talking terms with the mame team. It
> would have added control to the mame team to make sure their software isn't used
> for purposes they dont intend.
>


Tell Me Why You're Here, I Came To Disappear
http://haze.mame.net/


Subjectthere is a MAME tv show new Reply to this message
Posted bynewsdee
Posted on01/20/05 01:46 PM



> Sometimes I think they should just make a TV show 9021MAME with Luke Perry as
> Haze, and (ok I don't know anyone else from the show... )

Here you go:

"Love Glory and Discussion Boards" :-)
Episode 1
Episode 2
Episode 3



[download a life]


SubjectAnd what game is that? -nt- new Reply to this message
Posted byPurple Rain
Posted on01/20/05 11:40 PM



> > I was more talking about making it non-trivial to add 2001+ games to a
> different
> > version of mame.
> >
>
> the bootlegs are unprotected anyway, it would have made no difference at all.
> at no point was the protection on the later games documented, people simply used
> bootlegs.
>
> there is one cps2 game which wouldn't be included in Mame at this point, and I
> strongly suspect that even if the encryption was figured out emulating it would
> be impossible without extracting a large amount of data from the original boards
> like the fd1094, and if somebody can do that they could bootleg/emulate it
> anyway.
>
> > Other then it might have kept kaillera on talking terms with the mame team.
> It
> > would have added control to the mame team to make sure their software isn't
> used
> > for purposes they dont intend.
> >
>
>
> Tell Me Why You're Here, I Came To Disappear
> http://haze.mame.net/
>





SubjectIIRC Hyper Street Fighter (nt) new Reply to this message
Posted bysmf
Posted on01/21/05 02:34 AM



nt





SubjectThe aniversary edition? new Reply to this message
Posted bymikeyt
Posted on01/21/05 04:37 AM



I hope they changed more than just the title screen and then called it a new game.


SubjectDepends on your definition of new ;) new Reply to this message
Posted byBuveed
Posted on01/21/05 10:49 AM



IIRC, it's set up like SSF2T, but you have the option of choosing older versions of the characters (from SF2, SF2CE, etc) when you select them. But it's still Capcom rehashing all there old shit.




SubjectIt's also on PS2 and Xbox... new Reply to this message
Posted byNerox91
Posted on01/23/05 00:33 AM



Basicaly all the SF2 editions combined into one with extras iirc, the console ports also include one of the SF3 games. I doubt this soap opera will end in 09, Raz will still be whoring XORs and other shit til the day he dies. I predict the devs cracking the protection much like the Sega protection right now. Can't wait for CPS3, Raz jr. will have so much fun being a dick like his dad...




SubjectA VERDADE - ILUSTRADA!!! new Reply to this message
Posted byDilmarx
Posted on01/23/05 12:17 PM





Mais nada a declarar.


SubjectEnglish plz -mt- kthks new Reply to this message
Posted bynewsdee
Posted on01/23/05 02:58 PM



What I've understood:

Ratinho: "Holy smokes! What's your problem again?"

Razoola: "The problem, Ratinho, is that El Semi is fucking around about my hair and saying that he's a better dumper than I am!"

El Semi: "Of course, look closely: dumpers have a reputation of being well-groomed nerds. I'm a dumper AND I'm clean!"

Arron Giles: "I don't know but I know what's better: dump a ton of heavy roms to run in MAME so nobody has a machine powerful enough to run them. Mwahaha".

Billy JR: "I don't care about laws. I make booklegs anyways, fill my pockets with dough, and get laid a lot. After all, women like guys with fat wallets, so who needs to look attractive?"

Datena: "I knew videogames were [capeta], but I didn't even imagine they were made by people as ugly as him!"

Final user: "What, ME worry? I WANT TO PLAY THAT ROM AND TO HELL WITH THE REST".





[download a life]


SubjectYeah, you got the whole jist of it... new Reply to this message
Posted byDeath Knight
Posted on01/23/05 03:27 PM



Capeta = devil, satan, etc.
A fitting translation there would be "evil" or "from hell".

Ratinho e Datena are two hosts of shows rivalling the likes of Jerry Springer.

The whole thing isn't that funny, and he sure as hell chose the wrong crowd for the joke.


Gives us a kiss precious.


Subjectwhat's that about the smoking cobra? new Reply to this message
Posted bynewsdee
Posted on01/23/05 04:09 PM



"a cobra vai fumar", what does the expression mean?




[download a life]


Subjectlike Jerry Springer?? huahaahhah -nt- :D new Reply to this message
Posted byIkariWarrior
Posted on01/23/05 04:15 PM



NO TEXT




SubjectRe: what's that about the smoking cobra? new Reply to this message
Posted byIkariWarrior
Posted on01/23/05 04:17 PM



= agora fodeu

damnit, i really cant find a english expression to it..
one that resembles (just a little bit), is what The Thing from Fantastic 4 say before kick some ass, which i dunno too, in portuguese is "tá na hora do pau!!!" :P




SubjectRe: what's that about the smoking cobra? new Reply to this message
Posted byDeath Knight
Posted on01/23/05 04:51 PM



A cobra vai fumar = the snake is gonna smoke ( literally ), kinda means "shit's gonna get ugly now"


> = agora fodeu ( oh, it's fucked now )
>
> damnit, i really cant find a english expression to it..
> one that resembles (just a little bit), is what The Thing from Fantastic 4 say
> before kick some ass, which i dunno too, in portuguese is "tá na hora do pau!!!"
> :P
>
IT'S CLOBBERING TIME! :-) I love the thing.


Gives us a kiss precious.


SubjectRe: what's that about the smoking cobra? new Reply to this message
Posted byIkariWarrior
Posted on01/23/05 06:09 PM



> A cobra vai fumar = the snake is gonna smoke ( literally ), kinda means "shit's
> gonna get ugly now"
>
yeah, "thing(s) gonna get ugly", thats the one

>
> > = agora fodeu ( oh, it's fucked now )
> >
> > damnit, i really cant find a english expression to it..
> > one that resembles (just a little bit), is what The Thing from Fantastic 4 say
> > before kick some ass, which i dunno too, in portuguese is "tá na hora do
> pau!!!"
> > :P
> >
> IT'S CLOBBERING TIME! :-) I love the thing.
>
didnt know that, imo "ta na hora no pau!" is alot cooler :)

>
> Gives us a kiss precious.
>





SubjectRe: like Jerry Springer?? huahaahhah -nt- :D new Reply to this message
Posted byDilmarx
Posted on01/23/05 06:15 PM



Jerry Springer, Ratinho and Datena is sooooo weak...

BEHOLD THE SUPREME MASTER OF ALL!!!

http://alborghetti.web1000.com

EU FICO DESGRAÇADO DA MINHA CABEÇA COM ESSES PROGRAMADORES!!!




Subjectjust a simple request new Reply to this message
Posted byskydoune
Posted on01/23/05 11:03 PM



> Jerry Springer, Ratinho and Datena is sooooo weak...
>
> BEHOLD THE SUPREME MASTER OF ALL!!!
>
> http://alborghetti.web1000.com
>
> EU FICO DESGRAÇADO DA MINHA CABEÇA COM ESSES PROGRAMADORES!!!
>

please do this... this is giving me bad memories about reirom



Testing underwear in outer space


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