I just did it to mine... mmmm lovely emulators - had to try DGen first of course. (It's shit because it's an old emulator, but hey - you've gotta!)


Newsdee's Love, Glory, and Discussion Boards

>
>
> I just did it to mine... mmmm lovely emulators - had to try DGen first of
> course. (It's shit because it's an old emulator, but hey - you've gotta!)
>
>
> Newsdee's Love, Glory, and Discussion Boards
>

I've been thinking about buying a PSP, but is it easy to develop on? Is there something like a public domain devkit for it available?
It seems like a tempting little thing...

> >
> >
> > I just did it to mine... mmmm lovely emulators - had to try DGen first of
> > course. (It's shit because it's an old emulator, but hey - you've gotta!)
> >
> >
> > Newsdee's Love, Glory, and Discussion Boards
> >
>
> I've been thinking about buying a PSP, but is it easy to develop on? Is there
> something like a public domain devkit for it available?
> It seems like a tempting little thing...
>

Sony's only upgraded the firmware 3 or more times to prevent unauthorized code from running on the PSP, do you think they'd tolerate software devs that'd support making unauthorized programs for their hardware? How the heck do you think they make money? CLUE: On games developed for it! Do you really think they'd tolerate software that'd get in the way of their profits?

> > I've been thinking about buying a PSP, but is it easy to develop on? Is there
> > something like a public domain devkit for it available?
> > It seems like a tempting little thing...
> >
>
> Sony's only upgraded the firmware 3 or more times to prevent unauthorized code
> from running on the PSP, do you think they'd tolerate software devs that'd
> support making unauthorized programs for their hardware? How the heck do you
> think they make money? CLUE: On games developed for it! Do you really think
> they'd tolerate software that'd get in the way of their profits?
>

There's an open-source Xbox Dev Kit in development OpenXDK ... it is probably a little early in the PSP's life for something similar to be usable yet, though.

> > >
> > >
> > > I just did it to mine... mmmm lovely emulators - had to try DGen first of
> > > course. (It's shit because it's an old emulator, but hey - you've gotta!)
> > >
> > >
> > > Newsdee's Love, Glory, and Discussion Boards
> > >
> >
> > I've been thinking about buying a PSP, but is it easy to develop on? Is there
> > something like a public domain devkit for it available?
> > It seems like a tempting little thing...
> >
>
> Sony's only upgraded the firmware 3 or more times to prevent unauthorized code
> from running on the PSP, do you think they'd tolerate software devs that'd
> support making unauthorized programs for their hardware? How the heck do you
> think they make money? CLUE: On games developed for it! Do you really think
> they'd tolerate software that'd get in the way of their profits?
>

Well, I was wondering how finaldave would go about getting dgen to work on PSP. I know *exactly* how consoles manufacturers work and how they make money, thank you.
I mentioned 'Public Domain devkit', by which I really meant *any* way to create homebrew stuff on it. I was not suggesting a sony authorized devkit for free.

> > Sony's only upgraded the firmware 3 or more times to prevent unauthorized code
> > from running on the PSP, do you think they'd tolerate software devs that'd
> > support making unauthorized programs for their hardware? How the heck do you
> > think they make money? CLUE: On games developed for it! Do you really think
> > they'd tolerate software that'd get in the way of their profits?
> >
>
> Well, I was wondering how finaldave would go about getting dgen to work on PSP.
> I know *exactly* how consoles manufacturers work and how they make money, thank
> you.
> I mentioned 'Public Domain devkit', by which I really meant *any* way to create
> homebrew stuff on it. I was not suggesting a sony authorized devkit for free.

There has been a legal GCC package with good library support thus far, the forums at pspdev.org are filled with info.

I remind you that Sony's been the most tolerant of anyone about homebrew - they sold official amateur devkits for the PS1 and PS2 and have announced that the PS3 will also run Linux for homebrew use. The PSP's a bit different, and yet nobody wishes to respect them in the one case where they don't (yet?) have such a kit available. Anyway, PSP homebrew so far has been just a smokescreen for HK-funded piracy, just like usual.

nt

> Anyway, PSP homebrew so far has been just a smokescreen for
> HK-funded piracy, just like usual.
>

Shame that even though Sony has been pretty open to homebrew in the past that their platforms typically have pretty crummy homebrew output in comparison to their rivals' platforms. Has there been a decent media player for the PS2 yet? Last I checked, PS2 owners were still shit out of luck when it came to anything even remotely in the same solar system as Xbox Media Center.

Hell, I'm buying an Xbox on Saturday just for Xbox Media Center (though I'm really looking forward to playing Oddworld Stranger's Wrath as well :D ).

> > Anyway, PSP homebrew so far has been just a smokescreen for
> > HK-funded piracy, just like usual.
> >
>
> Shame that even though Sony has been pretty open to homebrew in the past that
> their platforms typically have pretty crummy homebrew output in comparison to
> their rivals' platforms. Has there been a decent media player for the PS2 yet?
> Last I checked, PS2 owners were still shit out of luck when it came to anything
> even remotely in the same solar system as Xbox Media Center.
>
> Hell, I'm buying an Xbox on Saturday just for Xbox Media Center (though I'm
> really looking forward to playing Oddworld Stranger's Wrath as well :D ).

What I've understood is that one of PS2's problems was that it was quite different/difficult to develop on, especially compared to an XBox.
For example, what I know is that Sun has been busy with a JRE implementation on PS2, but found that it was very hard to create a performant, full spec JVM on it, and eventually it never happened (this was not the only reason, though).
I also understood that PS3 is going to be easier; one of the reasons should be OpenGL support instead of some proprietary way of programming PS2's GPU.
I never programmed on PS2 nor PS3, though, this is just what I heard.

> > > Sony's only upgraded the firmware 3 or more times to prevent unauthorized
> code
> > > from running on the PSP, do you think they'd tolerate software devs that'd
> > > support making unauthorized programs for their hardware? How the heck do you
> > > think they make money? CLUE: On games developed for it! Do you really think
> > > they'd tolerate software that'd get in the way of their profits?
> > >
> >
> > Well, I was wondering how finaldave would go about getting dgen to work on
> PSP.
> > I know *exactly* how consoles manufacturers work and how they make money,
> thank
> > you.
> > I mentioned 'Public Domain devkit', by which I really meant *any* way to
> create
> > homebrew stuff on it. I was not suggesting a sony authorized devkit for free.
>
> There has been a legal GCC package with good library support thus far, the
> forums at pspdev.org are filled with info.
>

It wasn't me who ported DGen, I've only just downgraded my PSP, twas someone else! I would have ported PicoDrive anyway, DGen 1.21 is shite, full of VDP bugs

follow this:
http://wiki.ps2dev.org/psp:programming_faq

It takes a while but I'm up and running and I got a Hello World tonight


Newsdee's Love, Glory, and Discussion Boards

>
> > > I've been thinking about buying a PSP, but is it easy to develop on? Is
> there
> > > something like a public domain devkit for it available?
> > > It seems like a tempting little thing...
> > >
> >
> > Sony's only upgraded the firmware 3 or more times to prevent unauthorized code
> > from running on the PSP, do you think they'd tolerate software devs that'd
> > support making unauthorized programs for their hardware? How the heck do you
> > think they make money? CLUE: On games developed for it! Do you really think
> > they'd tolerate software that'd get in the way of their profits?
> >
>
> There's an open-source Xbox Dev Kit in development OpenXDK ... it is probably a
> little early in the PSP's life for something similar to be usable yet, though.
>
Actually, the open source PSP devkit is almost as good as the official one.

The OpenXDK isn't sadly.


Newsdee's Love, Glory, and Discussion Boards

> > > Anyway, PSP homebrew so far has been just a smokescreen for
> > > HK-funded piracy, just like usual.
> > >
> >
> > Shame that even though Sony has been pretty open to homebrew in the past that
> > their platforms typically have pretty crummy homebrew output in comparison to
> > their rivals' platforms. Has there been a decent media player for the PS2 yet?
> > Last I checked, PS2 owners were still shit out of luck when it came to
> anything
> > even remotely in the same solar system as Xbox Media Center.
> >
> > Hell, I'm buying an Xbox on Saturday just for Xbox Media Center (though I'm
> > really looking forward to playing Oddworld Stranger's Wrath as well :D ).
>
> What I've understood is that one of PS2's problems was that it was quite
> different/difficult to develop on, especially compared to an XBox.

In Xbox you had a wealth of tools to help you out, on PS2 it was quite plain.


Newsdee's Love, Glory, and Discussion Boards

> Actually, the open source PSP devkit is almost as good as the official one.
>
> The OpenXDK isn't sadly.

The open source psp kit (PSPSDK) is in some respects even better than the official one, for example, developers aren't permitted to touch the second cpu, there is no such restriction on the open source side. Some progress has been made there (an extremely basic example) but I haven't followed up on that since. I think the sdk needed to be outfitted with more support for the second cpu (custom crt, etc)

> > Actually, the open source PSP devkit is almost as good as the official one.
> >
> > The OpenXDK isn't sadly.
>
> The open source psp kit (PSPSDK) is in some respects even better than the
> official one, for example, developers aren't permitted to touch the second cpu,
> there is no such restriction on the open source side. Some progress has been
> made there (an extremely basic example) but I haven't followed up on that since.
> I think the sdk needed to be outfitted with more support for the second cpu
> (custom crt, etc)
>


Blimey - there's a second cpu in there??


Newsdee's Love, Glory, and Discussion Boards

> > > Actually, the open source PSP devkit is almost as good as the official one.
> > >
> > > The OpenXDK isn't sadly.
> >
> > The open source psp kit (PSPSDK) is in some respects even better than the
> > official one, for example, developers aren't permitted to touch the second
> cpu,
> > there is no such restriction on the open source side. Some progress has been
> > made there (an extremely basic example) but I haven't followed up on that
> since.
> > I think the sdk needed to be outfitted with more support for the second cpu
> > (custom crt, etc)
> >
>
>
> Blimey - there's a second cpu in there??

Yes, another mips r4k variant, also adjustable (1-333mhz, 2megs embedded dram???). Primarily designed to transparently handle video/audio decoding (atrac/mp3/adpcm/h.264/etc).

> for example, developers aren't permitted to touch the second cpu,
> there is no such restriction on the open source side.

I don't understand... why would Sony do something that would (seemingly) cripple their product? Is there some severe downside to using this second CPU that Sony wants to avoid, or is it something more sinister, like intentionally crippling 3rd party games so that Sony's own games sell better or something?

--Zero

> > for example, developers aren't permitted to touch the second cpu,
> > there is no such restriction on the open source side.
>
> I don't understand... why would Sony do something that would (seemingly) cripple
> their product? Is there some severe downside to using this second CPU that Sony
> wants to avoid, or is it something more sinister, like intentionally crippling
> 3rd party games so that Sony's own games sell better or something?
>

Might be something as innocent as they know they'll get a new/faster/cheaper processor soon, and they're just using this at the moment as a back up. When they get a new single processor that that's faster cheaper, they can swap that round for minimal effort, if people are coding to the metal assuming there's always going to be a 2nd cpu it's going to mess up their compatibility.
Not a bad idea really, keeps things upgradable internally.

> > > for example, developers aren't permitted to touch the second cpu,
> > > there is no such restriction on the open source side.
> >
> > I don't understand... why would Sony do something that would (seemingly)
> cripple
> > their product? Is there some severe downside to using this second CPU that
> Sony
> > wants to avoid, or is it something more sinister, like intentionally crippling
> > 3rd party games so that Sony's own games sell better or something?
> >
>
> Might be something as innocent as they know they'll get a new/faster/cheaper
> processor soon, and they're just using this at the moment as a back up. When
> they get a new single processor that that's faster cheaper, they can swap that
> round for minimal effort, if people are coding to the metal assuming there's
> always going to be a 2nd cpu it's going to mess up their compatibility.
> Not a bad idea really, keeps things upgradable internally.
>

I think it's simply a matter of it sucking batteries, which won't be a problem as bigger batts are released. As it is, it only gets 6-7 hrs from a charge running UMDs.

... Calvin Klein's no friend o' mine, don't want nobody's name on my be-hind...

> > > > Actually, the open source PSP devkit is almost as good as the official
> one.
> > > >
> > > > The OpenXDK isn't sadly.
> > >
> > > The open source psp kit (PSPSDK) is in some respects even better than the
> > > official one, for example, developers aren't permitted to touch the second
> > cpu,
> > > there is no such restriction on the open source side. Some progress has
> been
> > > made there (an extremely basic example) but I haven't followed up on that
> > since.
> > > I think the sdk needed to be outfitted with more support for the second cpu
> > > (custom crt, etc)
> > >
> >
> >
> > Blimey - there's a second cpu in there??
>
> Yes, another mips r4k variant, also adjustable (1-333mhz, 2megs embedded
> dram???). Primarily designed to transparently handle video/audio decoding
> (atrac/mp3/adpcm/h.264/etc).
>

Do you have links to any example code which can do stuff with it? That's sounds amazing??!

Newsdee's Love, Glory, and Discussion Boards

> > > > there is no such restriction on the open source side. Some progress has
> > been
> > > > made there (an extremely basic example) but I haven't followed up on that
> > > since.
> > > > I think the sdk needed to be outfitted with more support for the second
> cpu
> > > > (custom crt, etc)
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Blimey - there's a second cpu in there??
> >
> > Yes, another mips r4k variant, also adjustable (1-333mhz, 2megs embedded
> > dram???). Primarily designed to transparently handle video/audio decoding
> > (atrac/mp3/adpcm/h.264/etc).
> >
>
> Do you have links to any example code which can do stuff with it? That's sounds
> amazing??!

I'm really sorry, I don't. As I said I didn't follow up on that due to lack of time. The forum however was the PSPSDK site, where pretty much all major developments take place (forums.ps2dev.org, or www.pspdev.org - same site). A search should get you the info quickly. There are also some new developments with the VFPU going on now which are quite interesting.

> > for example, developers aren't permitted to touch the second cpu,
> > there is no such restriction on the open source side.
>
> I don't understand... why would Sony do something that would (seemingly) cripple
> their product? Is there some severe downside to using this second CPU that Sony
> wants to avoid, or is it something more sinister, like intentionally crippling
> 3rd party games so that Sony's own games sell better or something?

There is nothing quite so sinister about it, it's merely just the way it was spec'd. That isn't to say that Sony won't allow direct access to it in the future. As it stands the second CPU handles the media functions which is fair enough. The PSP is library locked to 222mhz and developers have been able to pull off amazing stuff with that limitation. We'll likely see that restriction lifted when Sony get around to putting out that new battery (30% more life)...

> > > for example, developers aren't permitted to touch the second cpu,
> > > there is no such restriction on the open source side.
> >
> > I don't understand... why would Sony do something that would (seemingly)
> cripple
> > their product? Is there some severe downside to using this second CPU that
> Sony
> > wants to avoid, or is it something more sinister, like intentionally crippling
> > 3rd party games so that Sony's own games sell better or something?
>
> There is nothing quite so sinister about it, it's merely just the way it was
> spec'd. That isn't to say that Sony won't allow direct access to it in the
> future. As it stands the second CPU handles the media functions which is fair
> enough. The PSP is library locked to 222mhz and developers have been able to
> pull off amazing stuff with that limitation. We'll likely see that restriction
> lifted when Sony get around to putting out that new battery (30% more life)...
>
So you didn't hear the thing about Gran Turismo is going to be the first game which uses it at 333mhz then ;-)



Newsdee's Love, Glory, and Discussion Boards

> > > > > there is no such restriction on the open source side. Some progress has
> > > been
> > > > > made there (an extremely basic example) but I haven't followed up on
> that
> > > > since.
> > > > > I think the sdk needed to be outfitted with more support for the second
> > cpu
> > > > > (custom crt, etc)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Blimey - there's a second cpu in there??
> > >
> > > Yes, another mips r4k variant, also adjustable (1-333mhz, 2megs embedded
> > > dram???). Primarily designed to transparently handle video/audio decoding
> > > (atrac/mp3/adpcm/h.264/etc).
> > >
> >
> > Do you have links to any example code which can do stuff with it? That's
> sounds
> > amazing??!
>
> I'm really sorry, I don't. As I said I didn't follow up on that due to lack of
> time. The forum however was the PSPSDK site, where pretty much all major
> developments take place (forums.ps2dev.org, or www.pspdev.org - same site). A
> search should get you the info quickly. There are also some new developments
> with the VFPU going on now which are quite interesting.
>

Yeah I've been looking on those sites. The wiki on there is very good as well

Have to say, PSP is a great little thing to program for... it has a fixed function pipeline but it's quite nice. Pah - wish I hadn't bought the crappy Gizmondo, what a waste of cash!

Newsdee's Love, Glory, and Discussion Boards

> > > I don't understand... why would Sony do something that would (seemingly)
> > cripple
> > > their product? Is there some severe downside to using this second CPU that
> > Sony
> > > wants to avoid, or is it something more sinister, like intentionally
> crippling
> > > 3rd party games so that Sony's own games sell better or something?
> >
> > There is nothing quite so sinister about it, it's merely just the way it was
> > spec'd. That isn't to say that Sony won't allow direct access to it in the
> > future. As it stands the second CPU handles the media functions which is fair
> > enough. The PSP is library locked to 222mhz and developers have been able to
> > pull off amazing stuff with that limitation. We'll likely see that
> restriction
> > lifted when Sony get around to putting out that new battery (30% more life)...
> >
> So you didn't hear the thing about Gran Turismo is going to be the first game
> which uses it at 333mhz then ;-)

GT is a bread & butter game, and why wouldn't they unlock it for their own title? :)

What I've not heard yet is if everyone else is getting libraries with the cap removed. Everything seemed to point to when the new batteries made the rounds, but who knows...

> > I'm really sorry, I don't. As I said I didn't follow up on that due to lack
> of
> > time. The forum however was the PSPSDK site, where pretty much all major
> > developments take place (forums.ps2dev.org, or www.pspdev.org - same site). A
> > search should get you the info quickly. There are also some new developments
> > with the VFPU going on now which are quite interesting.
> >
>
> Yeah I've been looking on those sites. The wiki on there is very good as well
>
> Have to say, PSP is a great little thing to program for... it has a fixed
> function pipeline but it's quite nice. Pah - wish I hadn't bought the crappy
> Gizmondo, what a waste of cash!

The Gizmondo?!?! You didn't ! :)

> In Xbox you had a wealth of tools to help you out, on PS2 it was quite plain.

For homebrew the tools are pretty similar, except the PS2 has a better compiler :-)

The PS2 is a real console. It requires a brain to program effectively (Sardu's done fine with it, for instance, as have the Renderware guys). Xbox is a PC. No imagination required.

Both CPUs are used in commercial titles, but code on the second one is restricted to canned modules provided by Sony. Luckily they're very useful modules. The real issue is the reason the PSP isn't as good as it's paper specs: bus contention. The homebrew guys will discover the true horrors of shared memory once they start doing hardware 3D :-)

> > > I'm really sorry, I don't. As I said I didn't follow up on that due to lack
> > of
> > > time. The forum however was the PSPSDK site, where pretty much all major
> > > developments take place (forums.ps2dev.org, or www.pspdev.org - same site).
> A
> > > search should get you the info quickly. There are also some new
> developments
> > > with the VFPU going on now which are quite interesting.
> > >
> >
> > Yeah I've been looking on those sites. The wiki on there is very good as well
> >
> > Have to say, PSP is a great little thing to program for... it has a fixed
> > function pipeline but it's quite nice. Pah - wish I hadn't bought the crappy
> > Gizmondo, what a waste of cash!
>
> The Gizmondo?!?! You didn't ! :)
>

I bloody did, what a fool am I. It has the worst battery life I have ever seen. Why oh why did I waste 129 of my hard earned pounds


Newsdee's Love, Glory, and Discussion Boards