Hi,

I'm considering buying either an Ipaq 3670 or Casio Em500. I have never owned, nor really used a Pocket PC before, but have been reading about them recently.

Seems to me the Casio's main negative is the smallish 16mb RAM, but I figure an mmc RAM card can fix that, right? And of course, the CPU is slow compared to Ipaq.

The Ipaq seems pretty cool, especially the versatile display, good battery life & fast CPU, but the old control problem scares me a bit. Especially since I'm a gamer and MAMEce will probably be a favorite app for me.

Question: Exactly what is the Ipaq's control limitation? For example, let's say you're playing Galaga - you'd use the cross key to move, but to shoot you'd have to let go of the cross key? Or you can tap the screen to shoot? Is that the idea? But the Casio would control normally - you can use the cross key to move and the little buttons to shoot etc. like a normal game controller? Correct?

Question: Is the sound Ok on both? Using headphones, just as good? I've heard the Ipaq has better or louder sound...

So then...

Is there really an obvious choice here? Any thought or recommendations much appreciated!

(Also congrats to tekhmaster for the review in PocketPC magazine! I was just reading it today in Barnes & Nobles, and I was like, wow cool! :)

-P-

After reading carefully about the EM-500 and the current IPaqs, I think neither are quite right yet...

But this model now available in Japan looks good:

http://www.casio.co.jp/pocketpc/e700/product/

Seems to be an EM-500 with 32mb RAM. Same CPU though, but I think having more RAM is quite significant for overall operation. 150Mhz *should* at some point be fast enough to at least emulate older games and perhaps the Gameboy/NES to perfection. Or so I would imagaine... I'd pay for such emulators on a small machine like that!

I think I'll wait a few months and see what happens. I also hear Toshiba might have a PPC soon, and they make killer stuff usually. Read too many complaints about IPaq quality control, no longer looking there. I'm pretty picky about dusty screens and stuff like that, plus that single button limit is beyonf stupid, the engineer who did that should be fired IMO. I mean, c'mon, *everyone* had to know ppl would want to play a few games on these devices! And I thought the computer/technology market had given up that silly "we don't play games, we're serious business tools" bullsh*t attitude...

Anyway, it's a new and interesting world of hardware for me, and the PDA features would also be pretty cool. :)

-P-

-P-

I just bought the EM500 and shortly I will upgrade the internal ram to 32 megs (www.palmpilotupgrade.com) Emulation wise I have found this machine to be unsatisfing. I can play mameboy (pacman/ms. pacman with sound and DK/DKjr without sound and get good framerates. The other emulators I have tried have been too slow. The ipaqs speed might be nice but the button issue ruins it. The EM500 can be overclocked, but I havent heard many definitive outcomes of how succesful it is.

I went with the EM500 because I like the layout of the buttons and its size (the other casios are too big). With the extra 32 megs internal and overclocking (if stable) I think would be the best machine.

> Seems to me the Casio's main negative is the smallish 16mb RAM, but I figure an
> mmc RAM card can fix that, right? And of course, the CPU is slow compared to Ipaq.

Precisely. 64MB MMC card cures memory problem quite nicely. You can install apps on it, and run them just as if it's a normal, internal memory. Casio has 150 MHz CPU which can be overclocked to 200MHz by opening the device and doing a little graphite pencil trick. Processor is slower than iPaqs, that for sure. It's quite obvious on some emulators and not really noticeable in the so called 'everyday use'

> The Ipaq seems pretty cool, especially the versatile display, good battery life
> & fast CPU, but the old control problem scares me a bit. Especially since I'm a
> gamer and MAMEce will probably be a favorite app for me.

Screen on the Ipaq is much worse, less contrasty and able to display much less colors than Casios. It's only advantage is beter visibility in the sunlight. Let's not even start with the dreaded dust problem.


> Question: Exactly what is the Ipaq's control limitation? For example, let's say
> you're playing Galaga - you'd use the cross key to move, but to shoot you'd have
> to let go of the cross key? Or you can tap the screen to shoot? Is that the
> idea?

Precisely. You can tap the screen if the emulator supports that (many do) but that whole control method thing is incredibly lame, and was a main reason why I decided to go with the Casio.


>But the Casio would control normally - you can use the cross key to move
> and the little buttons to shoot etc. like a normal game >controller? Correct?

Correct. EM-500 has best gamepad I've ever seen on any pocket device, btw.



> Question: Is the sound Ok on both? Using headphones, just as good? I've heard
> the Ipaq has better or louder sound...

Ipaq has louder sound, but EM-500 has sound that is more bassy, fuller and crisper (with headphones, of course). Almost everyone who did a direct comparision agreed on that. And EM500 is pretty loud too, IMHO, plus you can get cheap yet quite good remote control headphones for it. In the present state, many emulators don't work well with the sound on both Casio and Ipaq. Both MAMEBoy and MAMECE3 suffer a sound problem and the slowdown with sound enabled is quite big, especially on Casio. Some games though, work perfectly with sound.

Gameboy, NES, GameGear, Master System all work well and full speed on the Ipaq, and very close to full speed (or 100% speed with fameskip) on Casio.

Hope that helped a bit.

> other casios are too big). With the extra 32 megs internal and overclocking (if
> stable) I think would be the best machine.
>

Absolutely.

I've done some exhaustive research now on the available PPC's, and I feel none are good enough just yet for me to buy. Sad, because they're soooo close... If I had to buy one now, it'd be the Casio EM-500 with an additional 64mb mmc card. But from my research it's CPU speed is a real hindrance, and the small internal memory is annoying. I also really wish there was some way Casio could add an IPaq type jacket expansion system to the design, but still keep the mmc slot.

The Casio is the better machine IMO. I won't go to an IPaq - I just read dozens of posts from IPaq owners saying stuff like "I love my IPaq, can't wait to get it back from the repair shop..." Heh. ;) And that stupid one-button-press limitation ALONE is reason enough for me to avoid the IPaq. I'm flabbergasted each time I think about that - how in the world could they let a design flaw like that slip thru... ? The Casio's just seem to better manufactured and I personally love backlit active matrix. Living in a big city, I don't spend much (if any!) time in direct sunlight.

I think the "perfect" PPC given today's available technology would indeed be the EM-500 with at least 32MB RAm and a faster CPU, at least 200Hmz. I'd also like to see movement toward the IPaq's battery technology, I forget the name, but it's damn cool stuff, but I'd want it kept replaceable.

I have a strong suspicion the next 6 months will see all that come to life. So I'm waiting and watching. I'd hate to buy a current machine right now knowing new models are on the verge of being released. $500 is a lot of money for me (a huge amount actually, since I'll be temporarily unemployed within about a month) so I'll save it till I feel the right machine comes along.

-P-

> I'd also like
> to see movement toward the IPaq's battery technology, I forget the name, but
> it's damn cool stuff, but I'd want it kept replaceable.

It's a Lithium Polymer battery, that on paper works great, but most iPaq reported less than 3 hours of operation time when using the brightest backlight or otherwise putting it to a maximum usage. Casio still beats that with older battery technology.

I recently picked a Casio E-125...It's, if I understand correctly, the samething as the e-500 just with 32 megs.

I got it with emulation in mind. I recently overclocked it to 200mHz. I can play most pocketNes games with sound with little slowdown. It's awesome having a portable NES. Been playing Zelda2 alot.

I have a feeling that the machine has a lot of power to be exploited, in the right hands. The people behind the new Genesis PPC emulator I feel have the skill to come out with a great program. They have pulled off some amazing work on the PPC already. I wouldn't be too surprised if they got the Genesis emulated with sound and very near perfect speeds. Check it out at www.pocketemulator.com. Plus if that works out well for them they will hopefully do other emulation projects. For a good site on PPC games definitely check out www.pocketgamer.org.

Calvin-X

> Hi,
>
> I'm considering buying either an Ipaq 3670 or Casio Em500. I have never owned,
> nor really used a Pocket PC before, but have been reading about them recently.
>
> Seems to me the Casio's main negative is the smallish 16mb RAM, but I figure an
> mmc RAM card can fix that, right? And of course, the CPU is slow compared to
> Ipaq.
>
> The Ipaq seems pretty cool, especially the versatile display, good battery life
> & fast CPU, but the old control problem scares me a bit. Especially since I'm a
> gamer and MAMEce will probably be a favorite app for me.
>
> Question: Exactly what is the Ipaq's control limitation? For example, let's say
> you're playing Galaga - you'd use the cross key to move, but to shoot you'd have
> to let go of the cross key? Or you can tap the screen to shoot? Is that the
> idea? But the Casio would control normally - you can use the cross key to move
> and the little buttons to shoot etc. like a normal game controller? Correct?
>
> Question: Is the sound Ok on both? Using headphones, just as good? I've heard
> the Ipaq has better or louder sound...
>
> So then...
>
> Is there really an obvious choice here? Any thought or recommendations much
> appreciated!
>
> (Also congrats to tekhmaster for the review in PocketPC magazine! I was just
> reading it today in Barnes & Nobles, and I was like, wow cool! :)
>
> -P-
>

Thanks, I am still floored when I think about it. Never thought, back when I was tinkering with Ben's code, that it would end up in a real Magazine :)

As for a purchasing choice I couldn't make up my mind so I ended up buying both the Casio E115 when it came out and then the iPaq 3630 when it was finally available (I did have some extra funds so that helped :)

I have been using the iPaq most, lately. You get used to its quirks and the dust problem has been minimal for me since I upgraded to the 3670. The Casio is also a good buy even with a few of its own quirks. If you can wait then you are probably correct in the assupmtion that a better device will come along. Check out the @migo over on Brighthands site it has the qualities of an iPaq and the functionality of the Casio. Last I heard availability was still an issue.

At some point you are going to have to make a choice, which ever one you make, I am sure you will be happy with it. All the current offerings are fine machines.


Cheers,
-Techmaster

> Thanks, I am still floored when I think about it. Never thought, back when I was
> tinkering with Ben's code, that it would end up in a real Magazine :)
>

Yes, it's always fun to see a "real" press mention. :) I recall several times when Retrogames was mentioned in various press when I was still a primary staffer, and it felt great. Of course, you actually (and deservedly) had your nick mentioned too! :)

> At some point you are going to have to make a choice, which ever one you make, I
> am sure you will be happy with it. All the current offerings are fine machines.

Yes, I will indeed be making a choice, probably in August or September I suspect. Toshiba is expected to unveil their 1st PPC in July, and rumors say Casio will show something new next month! Considering Nec has a pin compatible CPU at 200Mhz with some cool power features, I bet/hope Casio goes to that.

Can you tell I'm really getting into PPC's ? :P I'm even considering doing a new site for them once I finally get one. I'm thinking a game/emulation site for PPC's with other related news as well. I really think emulation on PPCs will EXPLODE as soon as new models start getting faster CPUs and better controls etc. Once the 400Mhz chips start showing up, we're talking some seriously cool emulation possibilities. Not to mention native games for the platform, which are already looking pretty nice - so nice that I may not even bu a Gameboy Advance.

No matter what, I'm sooo eager to try MAME on a PPC! So please, keep up your good work!

-P-

> It's a Lithium Polymer battery, that on paper works great, but most iPaq
> reported less than 3 hours of operation time when using the brightest backlight
> or otherwise putting it to a maximum usage. Casio still beats that with older
> battery technology.
>

Interesting. It's actually rather tricky finding any definitive ratings on battery life for PPCs. I guess so many factors are involved. I think the best strategy is replaceable batteries like Casio has, along with offering them in varying capacities, like the EG-800 has. That way ppl have at least the option.

Ideally I think most ppl would like to see a solid 8 hours of full tilt (screen on, sound going, input happening) power out of a battery. Not there yet, but that would be great.

I even saw somewhere that some guy actually hooked a solar panel up to his Ipaq! :P Pretty cool tho impractical.

-P-

> Interesting. It's actually rather tricky finding any definitive ratings on
> battery life for PPCs. I guess so many factors are involved. I think the best
> strategy is replaceable batteries like Casio has, along with offering them in
> varying capacities, like the EG-800 has. That way ppl have at least the option.
>
> Ideally I think most ppl would like to see a solid 8 hours of full tilt (screen
> on, sound going, input happening) power out of a battery. Not there yet, but
> that would be great.
>
> I even saw somewhere that some guy actually hooked a solar panel up to his Ipaq!
> :P Pretty cool tho impractical.
>
> -P-
>
Casio's replaceable battery model is an ideal solution but even better is, 'off the shelf' batteries. That way you can buy a couple dozen and keep on going.
I was very upset with the built in battery when I bought the iPaq, but a week later I went ahead and built a battery extender mentioned on Dale Coffing's site.

It really isn't that hard to do and it allows me to have replaceable batteries for any of my devices.
I built both a small AA one and a big DCell one. That way I can do a trickle charge with the light poratable AA one, and when I need to game for a few more hours I plug in big D :)
I keep the D unit in a neoprene case with just the plug wire sticking out. Its an extra case attached to the belt or on a table nearby but it does the job. Even the Casio can use such a device. The difference is you don't need to shut down and swap the battery out.

Between that and my PC Card Sleeve with the extra battery, I can usually go all day if needed without having to shut down. It is rare that I ever get that much time to do such a thing but its nice to know I can :)

As for the Solar Panel, I saw one in the Mobile Planet catalog. A big one for like $300 and an recently a Smaller more poratable one for about $99. Not really that impractical with the iPaq and its totally visible screen in full sunlight ;)


Cheers,
-Techmaster