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SubjectRe: Banned Again Reply to this message
Posted by(bd)lio
Posted on11/28/02 10:08 AM



This is going to be the first and probably last time iīll state _my_ opinion
on this matter because iīm in this community for the fun of pinball and not
for personal ego-trips.
Donīt get me wrong PacDude - you certainly did a lot of good work and i really
like what you did with TAF and TZ. At first i was one of those that commented
on each and every of your releases and if it was only to say "thanks" - iīve lost
interest in doing that as much as iīm loosing interest in the whole community.
While you keep saying that your sole intention always was to improve things and
bring tables as close to the real thing as possible, iīve still got the feeling
that you just wanted to slap your name on more and more releases lately.
Contributing to a table is one thing (and i have to admit that you have always
given credit where due in your rev-histories when it came to people contributing
to your projects) but releasing tables someone else initially recreated under
your "label" is yet another.
And while you are right that your rev-histories can hardly be taken as a lack of
respect torwards other community members your actions can. I do believe that you
had an "ok" for all your "mods" but why not just contribute and show some extra
respect by letting the original author make the "official" release?
What you did lately was more like "overtaking" than contributing - at least i got
that feeling.

In the case of Dr.Who...well, youīre absolutely right that Kid C. shouldnīt have
"invaded" you wip thread. This fight has really grown old and obviously neither you
nor Kid C. is willing to take a step back and calm down. I can see why Kid C. was
p*ssed: at first you contributed, then you started posting pics of your progress
on "his" table (yeah, sure the copyright thing...let me pick on that one later)
and no matter what you think or say this is like pushing, like putting pressure on
the original author and finally, as you noticed that Kid C. wasnīt about to release it
right away and that he even went as far as not to use and gratefully accept everything
you changed, you jumped on the other train by working on Krellanīs version of Dr. Who.

Somewhat reminds me of this:
A child, his mother and grandmother are walking through town doing some shopping.
They enter a toy shop. Of course the child will see this super-duper toy that he canīt
continue to live without. The child asks his mother to buy this thing for him but his mother
says "no" - so what does the child do? he starts crying and walks over to grandma, rants
about how bad his mother is and that he never gets what he wants and in the next second
asks his grandmother to buy this toy for him because his mother didnīt...go figure.

The copyright thing...of course none of the vpm table authors has the copyright on the images
but thatīs not the point - i would be upset as well if someone shamelessly used the
image i worked on and cleaned up...just because i had to start from scratch back then,
so why canīt you? This would be different if Kid C. had no objections to "his" pic beeing
used - but since heīd rather not see it used anywhere else why canīt you respect his wish,
copyrighted ot not?
infact why not create an all new Dr.Who table from scratch all by yourself?

Thereīs more to it than just the latest affairs - i could talk about your ranting about
vp not beeing open source but iīll save my breath.
We will see what happens to vp within the next 4 weeks anyway...maybe no more discussions
are needed because weīve p*ssed off the one remaining vp-dev enough to quit.

Reading through what i just wrote iīm not really sure if i should post this - itīs not 100% fair.
Iīve taken my time to write this and in the end it reflects what i wanted to say... itīs just
that english is not my native language and that some things may not really come off as i wanted them to.
Donīt take it as flames - nor take it as a sympathy for Kid C. (his actions are no better or worse).
Donīt take it as "sticking the knife in your back" - iīve got no personal problem with you (how could
i - i donīt know you personally).
I just wanted to express my opinion and you do not have to justify your actions more than anyone else.
cheers,
lio

your mother ate my dog :D
http://www.vp-lio.de.vu

-
Entire Thread
Subject  Posted byPosted On
*Banned Again  PacDude11/27/02 01:09 AM
.*Re: Banned Again  VmprHntrD12/14/02 09:16 PM
.*HeeHee  Paratech12/01/02 09:41 PM
.*Get a load of this  Paratech12/01/02 09:32 PM
..*Wonders Never Cease ; Let's go party Paratech! :)  PacDude12/02/02 09:12 PM
.*Re: Banned Again  Pinball Ken12/01/02 02:58 AM
..*Re: Banned Again  PacDude12/01/02 08:06 AM
...*Re: Banned Again  Pinball Ken12/02/02 02:43 AM
.*Food for thought  Paratech11/30/02 00:43 AM
.*Re: Banned Again  GottliebVPGD11/30/02 00:15 AM
..*Re: Banned Again  PacDude11/30/02 10:20 PM
...*Re: Banned Again  GottliebVPGD12/01/02 00:29 AM
..Re: Banned Again  (bd)lio11/28/02 10:08 AM
..*Let's clear up the misconceptions (Part I)  PacDude11/29/02 01:29 AM
...*Re: Let's clear up the misconceptions (Part I)  Ken211/29/02 02:25 PM
....*Re: Let's clear up the misconceptions (Part I)  AussiePin11/29/02 06:24 PM
.....*Re: Let's clear up the misconceptions (Part I)  PacDude11/29/02 07:37 PM
...*Let's clear up the misconceptions (Part II)  PacDude11/29/02 01:34 AM
....*Re: Let's clear up the misconceptions (Part III Final)  PacDude11/29/02 01:45 AM
.....*Re: Let's clear up the misconceptions (Part III Final)  AussiePin11/29/02 06:02 AM
......*Re: Let's clear up the misconceptions (Part III Final)  ewmboard11/30/02 03:34 AM
.......*Re: Let's clear up the misconceptions (Part III Final)  AussiePin11/30/02 05:48 AM
.....*Re: Let's clear up the misconceptions (Part III Final)  SkalarVPMX11/29/02 03:29 AM
......*Re: Let's clear up the misconceptions (Part III Final)  PacDude11/29/02 05:57 AM
.*Re: Banned Again  AussiePin11/27/02 05:30 AM
..*Re: Banned Again  PacDude11/27/02 11:53 PM
...*Re: Banned Again  AussiePin11/28/02 05:06 AM
....*Re: Banned Again  pinballmaniac11/28/02 09:55 PM
.....*Re: Banned Again  AussiePin11/29/02 05:51 AM
.*Re: Banned Again  GottliebVPGD11/27/02 02:20 AM
..*Re: Banned Again  pinballmaniac11/28/02 09:40 PM
..*Re: Banned Again  PacDude11/27/02 02:59 AM
...*Re: Banned Again  GottliebVPGD11/28/02 01:16 AM
....*Re: Banned Again  PacDude11/28/02 11:55 PM
.*Re: Banned Again  queldor11/27/02 01:44 AM
..*Re: Banned Again  JanK11/29/02 11:14 AM
...*Re: Banned Again  SaintGeorge11/29/02 03:36 PM
...*Re: Banned Again  Emkaah11/29/02 01:06 PM
....*Re: Banned Again  Ken211/29/02 02:12 PM
.....*Re: Banned Again  AussiePin11/29/02 06:12 PM
......*Re: Banned Again  Emkaah11/30/02 08:39 AM
.......*Re: Banned Again  AussiePin11/30/02 06:18 PM
........*Re: Banned Again  Emkaah12/01/02 11:46 AM
.........*Re: Banned Again  AussiePin12/01/02 05:37 PM
......*Re: Banned Again  PacDude11/29/02 07:29 PM
.......*Re: Banned Again  nicolas.b11/30/02 06:39 PM
.......*Re: Banned Again  AussiePin11/30/02 05:52 AM
........*Re: Banned Again  PacDude12/01/02 08:26 AM
.........*Re: Banned Again  AussiePin12/01/02 05:40 PM
..........*Re: Banned Again  nicolas.b12/02/02 10:55 AM
...........*Re: Banned Again  AussiePin12/02/02 05:33 PM
............*You have to love hypocrites... or do you?  PacDude12/02/02 08:52 PM
.............*Re: You have to love hypocrites... or do you?  kristian12/02/02 09:34 PM
............*Re: Banned Again  nicolas.b12/02/02 07:06 PM
............*Re: Banned Again  Emkaah12/02/02 06:36 PM
............*Re: Banned Again  Paratech12/02/02 05:47 PM
........*Re: Banned Again  Pinball Ken12/01/02 02:44 AM