> and no matter what you think or say this is like pushing, like putting pressure on the original author and finally, as you noticed that Kid C. wasnīt about to
> release it right away and that he even went as far as

That's incorrect in terms of a time-line. I posted those pictures as I was working on the Time Expander. I hadn't yet received any word one way or the other as to whether KC was going to use them or not. I assumed he would because it was accurate. To do this day, he's never said he wasn't going to use them, just that he wanted to copy them over to his last update and possibly shorten them so he could keep his old viewing angle (and that's where I said I took no responsiblity of whether it would come out right or not). At that point I had no interest in working on anything else. Later on when I got the pictures from Krisitan, I saw I could do a lot more than just the Time Expander. It didn't matter much to me personally whether I applied them to KC's table or Krellan's (assuming I got permission in the latter case), but I could see by that point that KC and I were not getting along (and I don't mean just in working together; I mean in other threads on the forum). So I figured it was either Krellan's table or nothing. By that time I had an interest in Dr. Who so I asked. He said yes. And now the table is completed (save turning the Dalek into an EMReel).

> you changed, you jumped on the other train by working on Krellanīs version of Dr. Who.

And what is the problem with that? I hadn't revoked my permission for KC to use my improvements. I wasn't trying to one-up his table, but rather I was leaving him to do whatever he thought best with his table while I went and did what I thought would be most accurate with Krellan's table. I've been told countless times by people like Paratech that there's nothing wrong with having two versions of the same table out there. Well in this case there were ALREADY two versions of the table out there. Is there a law that says I can't work on the other version if I get permission to do so? I didn't sign some exclusive agreement to only work on Kid's version of the table. My personal interest is purely in seeing the most accurate version possible. KC has stated time and time again he doesn't care about accuracy. That alone puts my work at odds with his.


> The copyright thing...of course none of the vpm table authors has the copyright on the images
> but thatīs not the point - i would be upset as well if someone shamelessly used the
> image i worked on and cleaned up...just because i had to start from scratch back then,
> so why canīt you? This would be different if Kid C.

But he didn't clean it up! It had flyer crap all over it! I cleaned it up! And he has my cleaned up copy of it, free of charge to include in his next update. Do you seriously think it's fair that I do the work on the playfield image and he gets to use it but I do not? No, that's not right either. His claim to "cleaning" the playfield amounts to removing the lower flippers and erasing the Dr.Who ships (they're black; the playfield is not put back in). The latter I had to recreate again to put the ships in my version using other photographs (mine uses 2 playfields for effects and other parts).

As for starting from scratch. Hey, I pratically did already (other than blacking out the ships and flippers, it was stock). I did most of the work, but he gets to use it and I don't? Again, that's not equitable at all. Even so, get me a flyer scan and I can spend hours doing it all over again just so KC won't bitch at me. My point is I don't have another flyer scan available to me at this point in time. I've already replaced the "master" image found on the back of the TE as I did have an alternate image. It still comes out looking almost exactly the same, but hey it's not the same image anymore! If I get another flyer scan, it will undoubtedly come out looking almost indentical anyway, but hey I enjoy spending hours doing work all over again for the heck of it.

> used - but since heīd rather not see it used anywhere else why canīt you respect
> his wish, copyrighted ot not?

I don't have another flyer image. And we're not talking about his wish here. He didn't express one way or the other whether he "would" let me use the picture or not. He expressed the idea that he *owns* the picture and I "sure as hell have to ask him for his permission" to use a flyer scan that isn't copyrighted to him and he doesn't own either (its a scan from a friend). If he uses my cleaned up version, he's at least as guilty for "stealing" my work as I woudl be for his whopping removal of the flippers and Who ships. Hell, give me those back and I'll remove them again. It's less work than removing everything I already removed all over again. Maybe you would like spending hours of your life doing something you already did all over again, but I'm young and I'd prefer to spend my time doing things I like to do than wasting hours repeating jobs or writing these ridiculously long diatribes in an attempt to correct faulty thinking that I've somehow stolen KC's table from him.

> infact why not create an all new Dr.Who table from scratch all by yourself?

Why throw out all of Krellan's hard work when he's perfectly happy lettin me update it? The short answer for me is that it saved me a lot of precious time to upgrade Krellan's existing table and I don't care about hogging glory. More to the point, even if I had started all over, I would still have copied my Time Expander over because that took me over 20 hours to build (and the current one on Krellan's table is a lot more since I've since fixed all remaining bugs). Again, my time is not without value to me. The Time Expander was interesting to me (getting a moving 3-level playfield to work in VP when VP isn't remotely set up to recreate such a thing). Building an entire Dr. Who table (when it's not one of my favorites in genral) from scratch was not of interest to me. I could spend the time I saved working on another table or doing something with my pitiful social life.