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SubjectWhere are you guys' going now? Reply to this message
Posted by_Parallax_
Posted on12/05/02 02:22 AM



I would like to be able to follow all of your works (yours and Kristians).

You guys going over to Shiva Forums, or staying here or going elsewhere??? (Just so I know where to look for you) ;)




SubjectRe: Where are you guys' going now? new Reply to this message
Posted byPacDude
Posted on12/05/02 03:18 AM



> I would like to be able to follow all of your works (yours and Kristians).
>
> You guys going over to Shiva Forums, or staying here or going elsewhere??? (Just
> so I know where to look for you) ;)
>

Well I'm going to be checking this board indefinitely at the moment and you can be sure any table release thread will appear here.

As for ShivaSite, no my account isn't gone from there and I liked what I read from Apocalypse and Shiva (which is at least encouraging). I just reread the rules for posting there and they all seem reasonable to me (Nicky probably wouldn't like the "mod" rules there, but then I know for a fact from when those boards were created that Shiva wasn't going to allow him there anyway because right or wrong Nicky pissed him off).

So you guys tell me what you want to do. I'm all for votes (I believe in democracy after all), but this forum isn't set up for tallys, so it'll have to be replies if you want to vote on the best course of action in general.

As it stands "right now," I don't think ShivaSite is really organized for it, but Apocalypse seems to be indicating they're willing to handle the extra duty to mend the community and so I'm sure extra forums (by sub-topic) could probably be created as long as this friendly trend continues. As for structure, I couldn't say, really. Right now there is a VPinmame forum and a VP forum. Whether there needs to be a Vpinmame release forum, wip forum, etc. I couldn't say. I always thought VPForums maybe had too many sub-divisions (I saw no reason mod releases couldn't be labeled as such in the subject line and thus elminating the need for a 2nd set of forums).

Shiva's mod rules are pretty stright forward, though (ask permission first, include credit for the original author and a revision history list of your own that explains the changes you made and if no one replies to you after 15 days, have your mod release approved by a staff member before posting it). However, Nicky is right to point out some odd discrepencies that date back to his orignal banning. Shivasite lists "mods" as being ANY graphics in a related table and there was the matter back then about "background pics" being considered a "mod" even when they're separated entirely from the table file. I don't recall who all had that view at the time (which I think is 100% wrong in that case), but if Nicky says it was Apocalypse and Shiva, he might be right since he was the one most directly involved in that argument. I'll state again like I did way back then that a picture meant to be used as a background if created by someone other than the original author is STILL just a picture (BMP or JPEG). It's no different than downloading a swimsuit photo off the net (you could apply Cindy Crawford as the backdrop for a table just as easily as anything else for instance). A person would have to apply it themselves on their own copy. So if things are going to nitpick in that direction, I'd have to agree that there is a potential danger of the same sort of decay thing happening all over again at some point in the future there (although more likely than anything else, Shiva would delete or dump the whole thing before it got that bad as he's been known to do that).

Otherwise, I personally have no problem with ShivaSite as long as they have no problem with me or others, so-to-speak and things don't get crazy on issues like background pictures. I don't know who all the staff members are there, though. I'd probably want to know first before I committed to moving there. And I don't know if Shiva is willing to host table releases (the last I mentioned this to him, he seemed against it save for VPMX releases). Of course if the community moved there for general VP things, he might get more donations too.

Otherwise, I'm still up for debate. I liked the general look of the one site Kristian pointed out, but the "upload" button is really just an e-mail address. If you're using a file-size limited e-mail adress like Yahoo, that might be a problem once in awhile (3-meg on Yahoo covers the majority of Vpinmame tables; ones that go over that usually are using BMPs or something that could be sized down with JPEGS, etc.). I haven't looked lately to see who all runs IRPinball, so I don't know whether they'd be at all hostile to still using their upload section until someone like Canisa picks it up (and I don't know who runs Canisa to send tables directly).

Overall, that's the sort of things people need to discuss. I think for the sake of trying to keep the community together as much as possible, it would be best to get some kind of general agreement or else we'd be splintering the community into even smaller parts (and even though there were over 20,000 people registered on VPForums, the amount of people that weren't leeches [didn't contribute even message postings] was probably in the low hundred range at best) so I think it's important to keep as much of the core community intact as possible that is willing to move.





SubjectRe: Where are you guys' going now? new Reply to this message
Posted byewmboard
Posted on12/05/02 03:57 AM



> I haven't looked lately to see who all runs IRPinball,
> so I don't know whether they'd be at all hostile to still using their upload
> section until someone like Canisa picks it up

They obviously would, since they only recently changed the Upload section to prevent people just uploading things there publicly. Now as soon as anything is uploaded it is removed again until it can be "vetted".

You also only have to look at Jay's postings on this very forum to see which side his bread is buttered with regard to anyone considered "undesirable" at VPF.

As I've said, I don't think Shivasite is the solution, as it's infected with the exact same disease as VPF, just at a less advanced stage. But it's a moot point since, as you say, me and my views aren't included in the invitation anyway.




SubjectRe: Where are you guys' going now? new Reply to this message
Posted byAlex_J_M
Posted on12/05/02 05:01 AM



I remember all too well that Shiva and Apoc were as hypocritical and self-centred as anyone at VPF (back when they were at VPF).

You'd simply be creating an accident waiting to happen.

New forums are what's needed, I have a few contacts on the fruit machine emulation scene who might be able to set something up, maybe an Ikonboard (a proper one, not the silly MyIkonboard thing) or vBulletin board.

As a temporary fix maybe the webmaster at Fruit Forums (www.fritforums.com - my "home" scene) would set up a VP section, he's a sound guy and runs a good ship, and most of the guys there are into VP anyway (I've burned about 50 CD sets) - although I haven't even asked him about this yet so don't take that as a given.

Failing that, even something as simple as MSN can work fairly well if organised properly.

The main point here is that we need uncensored, effectively unmoderated forums where people can talk openly like adults without fear of arbitrary reprisal.

> > I haven't looked lately to see who all runs IRPinball,
> > so I don't know whether they'd be at all hostile to still using their upload
> > section until someone like Canisa picks it up
>
> They obviously would, since they only recently changed the Upload section to
> prevent people just uploading things there publicly. Now as soon as anything is
> uploaded it is removed again until it can be "vetted".
>
> You also only have to look at Jay's postings on this very forum to see which
> side his bread is buttered with regard to anyone considered "undesirable" at
> VPF.
>
> As I've said, I don't think Shivasite is the solution, as it's infected with the
> exact same disease as VPF, just at a less advanced stage. But it's a moot point
> since, as you say, me and my views aren't included in the invitation anyway.
>





SubjectRe: Where are you guys' going now? new Reply to this message
Posted byLord Ashram
Posted on12/05/02 01:09 PM



> The main point here is that we need uncensored, effectively unmoderated forums
> where people can talk openly like adults without fear of arbitrary reprisal.

well again i extend my hand out to you guys to move to emuchrist if you would like. paratech has been a long time member there as well.





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SubjectRe: Where are you guys' going now? new Reply to this message
Posted byPcwaG
Posted on12/05/02 01:54 PM



I've been talking with a friend of mine who has access to a nice chunk of web space. He's not toooo into the VP stuff, but is willing to let me create a forum over there.
His main rules would be No pornographical material, No excessive cussing, and No forcing personal belief's on anyone.
I would only add in the matter of "modding" is to ask those who are askable, as in if someone else did it and are available to be reached, then ask. My views on "mods" are more like PacDude's and I personally feel that he should be a Admin.

If this sound good to you guys, then let me know, otherwise, I'll let the offer go.




SubjectRe: Where are you guys' going now? new Reply to this message
Posted byPacDude
Posted on12/05/02 07:51 PM



> I've been talking with a friend of mine who has access to a nice chunk of web
> space. He's not toooo into the VP stuff, but is

Are we talking about file hosting too or just a message board?

reached, then ask. My views on
> "mods" are more like PacDude's and I personally feel that he should be a Admin.

If I ever agreed to be an Admin anywhere, it would not be a day-to-day message watch sort of thing. Workign with VP alone and participating in SOME threads takes up WAY too much of my time already (I keep meaning to take a big break, but things keep happening from people sending me rewritten scripts to this message board business). That is the same basic reason why I refused to head up VPMX when I was at the top of the vote list and why I never asked for any spot the numerous times they became available in the past at VPForums. I simply don't have the time to do everything.

Looking back maybe I shouldn't have pulled out of the running in VPMX or asked about an admin job when one became vacant as it would have *really* looked bad kicking out the head of VPMX or an admin at VPForums (either it wouldn't have happened and there'd be a voice of reason there or they'd look even more pathetic).

I haven't looked at those supposed nasty conversations yet that the staff do in private that Nicky still hosts, but I'm sure I would have ditched the job long ago at VPForums myself if I saw that kind of crap going on. I wouldn't tolerate other staff members insulting people or being biggots. I saw enough name calling from KC in PMs (I won't repeat what he called Kristian a few days ago just before I was banned here).

> If this sound good to you guys, then let me know, otherwise, I'll let the offer
> go.

I'm up to giving that a try or if someone has something better to offer, let's hear about it. It sounds like table hosting is the primary issue that need resolved first (we already have this message forum at the moment, even though it's a bit limited, but no more so than Mame was for several years and it had a lot more traffic than VPForums put together).






SubjectHere's where to go: New OPEN VP Forums new Reply to this message
Posted byPacDude
Posted on12/05/02 09:36 PM




Welcome to the new OPEN VP Forums. The message board format should look vaguely familar. So fire up those Avatars and get on over there:

http://www.mpuforums.com/vp





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